Conference: Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Peña "Debian Project Presentation". 8-12-2000 Umeet'2000

Conference: Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Peña "Debian Project Presentation". 8-12-2000 Umeet'2000

Log de la Conferencia. Se han suprimido las líneas correspondientes a entradas y salidas de diferentes personas en el canal durante la conferencia
Start of #linux buffer: Fri Dec 08 22:23:50 2000
[19:20] (ismak) Good Afternoon
[19:21] (ismak) i would like to present a very known Spanish Debian Developer
[19:22] (ismak) He is name is Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Peña
[19:23] (ismak) He has developer a lot of debian packages
[19:24] (ismak) Some of them are
[19:24] (ismak) main: ayuda, casio, clips, clips-doc, dns-browse, fortunes-es, fortunes-es-off, gphoto
[19:24] (ismak) i2e, ldp-es, ldp-es-garl, ldp-es-glup, ldp-es-gulp, ldp-es-lipp, libbow
[19:24] (ismak) libnet-whois-perl, linux-tutorial-es, lucas, lucas-manifesto, lucas-novato, lucas-redes,
[19:24] (ismak) lucas-root, manpages-es, manpages-es-extra, roleplaying, spellcast, spellcast-doc,
[19:25] (ismak) task-spanish, user-es
[19:25] (ismak) contrib: civctp, heroesmm3, railroad2
[19:25] (ismak) non-free: bass, satan, tcltutor, vrwav
[19:27] (ismak) Well, Javier; you can start with your conference "Presentación del Proyecto Debian"
[19:27] (jfs) Ok. As ismak has perfectly stated I do develop a lot of packages :)
[19:27] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[19:27] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[19:27] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[19:27] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[19:27] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[19:27] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[19:27] (jfs) Thanks.
[19:28] (jfs) Well, first of all thanks to all of you attending this virtual conference
[19:28] (jfs) I must say that I am not used to doing conferences on IRC
[19:28] (jfs) so I might not be used to the medium...
[19:28] (jfs) Anyhow, my main task is to introduce you to the Debian project.
[19:29] (jfs) Since I do not really know to what extent you are aware of what the Debian project is
[19:29] (jfs) and what the debian project does.
[19:29] (jfs) I would first like to say that any interruptions are welcome.
[19:29] (jfs) I do not intend this conference to be a one-way conference.
[19:30] (jfs) If I wanted it to, I would have programmed a robot to do cut & paste of all the conference text ;)
[19:30] (jfs) So, if you really want to make sure that there is another person on the other side,
[19:30] (jfs) please, feel free to make questions at any point you feel like.
[19:31] (jfs) Understood?
[19:31] (MJesus) yes.. we understood
[19:31] (jfs) :)
[19:31] (Tango) it's ok. we are robots :)
[19:31] (jfs) oh thats fine then, you sure know there's really no way I can prove otherwise :)
[19:32] (jfs) Starting with the conference, I would like to give a little more light as to what my work currently is in Debian
[19:32] (jfs) since I tend to shift from time to time it is not easy to know it, I might not be aware of it myself either.
[19:33] (jfs) However, I have been working for quite some time in the internationalizations issues in Debian,
[19:33] (jfs) specifically tied to the spanish language. That's the reason for most of my packages.
[19:33] (jfs) First steps moved towards documentation but it also moved to other areas my work could prove useful
[19:34] (jfs) besides making translations.
[19:34] (jfs) Nowadays I'm starting a shift towards a security point of view of Debian.
[19:34] (jfs) After all, I'm working in a security-related company here in spain
[19:34] (jfs) and i *do* want to work with Debian (as a matter of fact I do).
[19:34] (viper) un poco tarde
[19:35] (jfs) But.. .. what is really Debian?
[19:35] (jfs) And why am I working there? do I get paid? is some kind of mechanism to dominate the world?
[19:35] (jfs) ;)
[19:36] (jfs) Really, Debian is a very simple project in its goals but at the same time very ambitious.
[19:36] (jfs) The main goal of Debian has not changed to what it was when Ian Murdock started the proyect in 1993.
[19:36] (jfs) The goal was to make a full-blown operating system that was entirely free.
[19:37] (jfs) Now, a question for the audience, what does free mean?
[19:37] (Tango) libre
[19:37] (MJesus) freedom !
[19:37] (Tango) jejje
[19:37] (jfs) (go ahead, feel free to answer, I do not know the time it takes to get here but seems a lot)
[19:38] (jfs) yes, the term "libre" in spanish more accurately describes "free"
[19:38] (t00R) free as in freedom =)
[19:38] (Hue-Bond) englishman begin to adopt "libre" as the "libre" meaning of "free" :)
[19:38] (jfs) the point is, as most of you know, that you say "free" in english and people think of discounts or cheap stuff :)
[19:38] (viper) free like the sea
[19:38] (Rawsock) freedom to copy, modify, sell, flame software
[19:39] (jfs) that's really how the Open Source movement started, IMHO
[19:39] (jfs) Now, at the same time Ian Murdock started Debian as a project
[19:39] (jfs) the Free Software Foundation had the same goals.. with the GNU proyect.
[19:39] (jfs) (who has not heard yet of Richard Stallman and his flute?)
[19:40] (jfs) So Debian really started as a FSF-funded proyect.
[19:40] (Tango) who has not heard rms playing his flute
[19:40] (jfs) But it did start to gain mass and later on there are good relationships but Debian has another "umbrella" now
[19:40] (jfs) Tango, well I have not... but I have seen a picture
[19:40] (jfs) ;)
[19:40] (Tango) :)
[19:41] (jfs) Well, some people might also relate closely Debian to Linux, but this is not really true...
[19:41] (jfs) the operating system is a mixture of a kernel and a lot of other programs
[19:41] (jfs) currently Debian provides a distribution
[19:42] (jfs) that is the way it perceives it is getting to its goal (though not there yet)
[19:42] (t00R) when can we spect a version of debian that uses the hurd?
[19:42] (jfs) the distribution is named Debian GNU/Linux
[19:42] (jfs) tOOR, there is currently a beta-version of the Debian GNU/Hurd distribution
[19:43] (jfs) tOOR, that is available for beta testers but break a lot
[19:43] (jfs) tOOR, I have not really tested it yet (I'm not much into Hurd), but the way people work I would say we could expect to see it really soon
[19:44] (t00R) cool =)
[19:44] (jfs) For all others (besides tOOR ;):
[19:44] (Lady) Por favor alguien está conectado de canarias, españa?
[19:44] (Lady) Por favor alguien está conectado de canarias, españa?
[19:44] (Lady) Por favor alguien está conectado de canarias, españa?
[19:44] (jfs) Debian is currently working in using other kernels (the Hurd for one)
[19:44] (jfs) so that's why people get pesky about the name...
[19:44] (jfs) first: it's using Linux, so its called /Linux
[19:45] (jfs) second: it is based on the GNU proyect programs to provide the other operating system functionality, so its called GNU/
[19:45] (jfs) People might say that there are many other programs besides the GNU-GPLd programs in Debian
[19:45] (jfs) and might, for example, talk about Perl and Apache. All really notable things.
[19:46] (jfs) But the point in putting it in the name is due to the fact that without GNU or Linux Debian would have barely started.
[19:46] (jfs) Ok. Who knows which documents are the basis for Debian?
[19:47] (jfs) (I'm not able to give presents as I like to do in real conferences)
[19:47] (jfs) (I'm out of Debian stickers ;)
[19:48] (teletubie) GPL ?
[19:48] (jfs) Not really
[19:48] (jfs) The GPL is a license, a very good license. But there are other good *and* free licenses out there.
[19:49] (jfs) Umm... it seems I might save a sticker
[19:49] (jfs) The documents Debian is based on are:
[19:49] (Rawsock) Artistic .. BSD .. X11
[19:50] (jfs) 1.- the Social Contract
[19:50] (jfs) available at http://www.debian.org/social_contract
[19:50] (jfs) that tells people what Debian was made for, its main goals
[19:50] (jfs) if you go off to the link I placed
[19:51] (jfs) you will see that there are four main points there:
[19:51] (jfs) a.- Debian will be 100% free software
[19:51] (jfs) b.- Debian will provide its tools to the free software community
[19:52] (jfs) c.- Debian will not hide its problems
[19:53] (jfs) d.- Debian priorities are its users and the free software
[19:53] (jfs) e.- Debian will not oblige its users to use *only* free software
[19:54] (jfs) Before I go explaining them I should say that
[19:54] (jfs) the second document Debian has at its basis are the
[19:54] (jfs) "Debian Free Software Guidelines"
[19:55] (jfs) (same URL as above http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines but down a page)
[19:55] (jfs) that tell people what Debian means when the proyect talks about "free"
[19:56] (jfs) another explanation is at http://www.debian.org/intro/free
[19:56] (jfs) The Guidelines, commonly refered as DFSG
[19:57] (jfs) where the basis of what know is known as "Open Source", that is esentially the same thing
[19:57] (jfs) Some people, however, do not like the term "Open Source" (for example Richard Stallman) and prefer "Free Software" instead.
[19:58] (jfs) I think that, if there is something I want to make clear to all of the people present
[19:58] (jfs) is the spirit behind that.
[19:58] (jfs) It is really that spirit that motivates people to work on Debian, and is really how Debian has gotten where it is know
[19:58] (jfs) and it can get to grow even more.
[19:59] (jfs) Even though Free Software has been for quite some time
[19:59] (jfs) it is know when it is reaching such a critical mass that it starts to get a wider audience
[19:59] (jfs) and the wider it gets the more it will grow
[20:00] (jfs) it is kind of a snowball going down a mountain. If it gets you in you're lost :)
[20:00] (jfs) hopefully entering or using Debian is not such a tragic accident.. so the comparison is a bit exaggerated
[20:00] (jfs) Debian started off a distribution
[20:01] (jfs) The first release was made on 1996, with Bruce Perens as main coordinator
[20:01] (jfs) it was named Buzz
[20:02] (jfs) well, it was not really the *first* release. But it is the first that starts with 1.x
[20:02] (jfs) the previous ones being 0.9x :)
[20:02] (jfs) I'm sure that even if you guys do not know the basis of Debian you *do* know where the releases name are based on, am I right?
[20:03] (jfs) (waiting :)
[20:03] (MJesus) yes
[20:03] (jfs) (ummm... it seems I got everybody to sleep by now....)
[20:04] (GoRiZt) zzzz... Toy Story
[20:04] (jfs) and why?
[20:04] (viper) jajaj
[20:04] (Hue-Bond) yes I do :)
[20:05] (MJesus) I like to know the principal differences between debian and redhat and others
[20:05] (jfs) either I have quite a timeout or people have dozed completely
[20:05] (jfs) Ok. good question.
[20:06] (jfs) Debian is volunteer based, *completely* volunteer based
[20:06] (jfs) RedHat is a commercial distribution.
[20:06] (jfs) In what they provide there are not that many differences, the software is basically the same
[20:06] (jfs) if you exclude two things:
[20:06] (jfs) - the installation
[20:06] (jfs) - the package system
[20:07] (jfs) Ok, for the first one.
[20:07] (jfs) The installation is Debian is not oriented to a given architecture, that is, the same boot-floppies can be used for
[20:07] (jfs) intel i386, alpha, sparc, arm, motorola and powerpc (in the latest release Debian 2.2)
[20:08] (jfs) Since RedHat is a commercial distribution it targets home users, and is basically i386 oriented
[20:08] (jfs) So many of the differences people will find, for example:
[20:08] (jfs) - graphic installation
[20:08] (jfs) - hardware autodetection
[20:09] (jfs) - ease of use
[20:09] (Tango) broken dependencies
[20:09] (MJesus) but, there are commercial distribution of debian as citius, for example
[20:09] (jfs) Tango, :)
[20:09] (jfs) Yep. There are many Debian-based commercial distributions
[20:09] (teletubie) Debian doesnt have hardware detection ?
[20:09] (jfs) and that is exactly the point.
[20:10] (jfs) Not in the released Debian 2.2 boot-floppies although work is ongoing for the next release in order to include it
[20:10] (jfs) it is not easy to make hardware detection when you are talking of six different architectures.
[20:11] (Tango) a set of perl scripts to parse /proc/pci? :)
[20:11] (jfs) Things like plug & play do not exist on Arms :)
[20:11] (jfs) (for example)
[20:11] (jfs) I said there are many Debian based commercial distibutions
[20:11] (jfs) Tango, there is not always a /proc/pci ;)
[20:11] (Tango) doh!
[20:11] (jfs) I know of some: Corel's, Stormlinux, Citius, Libra...
[20:12] (jfs) this commercial distributions target a different market but they are Debian based.
[20:12] (jfs) That's what makes Debian beautiful (dit I say I *really* like Debian ;)
[20:12] (jfs) For example, Corel targeted it's own towards home end users
[20:13] (jfs) and distributed it with it's own Corel suite (Word Perfect, Corel Draw, et al)
[20:13] (jfs) StormLinux has distributions targeted towards firewalling servers
[20:13] (jfs) (I am just giving examples they have also another one targeted towards end users)
[20:13] (jfs) Citius is targeted towards Debian spanish users.
[20:14] (jfs) The best part is that you take RedHat, for example, as you suggested
[20:14] (Tango) and debian is targeted towards everything :)
[20:14] (jfs) And I have *seen* people trying to make a RedHat-based distribution
[20:14] (jfs) Tango, exactly: world domination ;P
[20:14] (Tango) fast
[20:14] (Tango) :)
[20:14] (jfs) some people I know of where making the "Eurielec" distribution, you might have heard of it.
[20:15] (jfs) They have many problems in order to make it.
[20:15] (jfs) Their main goal was to have a RedHat spanish based distribution, targeted to the Spanish market
[20:15] (jfs) and did really a good job with it
[20:15] (jfs) But some of the problems they had because of RedHat:
[20:16] (jfs) - they could not use the logo, they could even not use RedHat's name to endorse it!
[20:16] (Tango) but have a design problem (red hat based)
[20:16] (jfs) - all the changes they made could not be contributed back to RedHat
[20:17] (MJesus) yes, I heard about eurielec one or more year ago, but.. very silent !
[20:17] (jfs) Tango, well, yes, but people sometimes do not know all that is going on on the free software world
[20:17] (jfs) So, for example, if they patched the PPP scripts in order to be easily configured for an end-user here in Spain
[20:17] (Tango) that's why you are here :)
[20:17] (jfs) RedHat would not even look at it.
[20:18] (jfs) If they translated documents, RedHat would not have it...
[20:18] (milano) what does exactly mean "i18n"? and "l10n"?
[20:18] (jfs) So its happening in Spain nowadays with RedHat based distributions
[20:18] (jfs) they *compete* between them.
[20:18] (milano) i can't find it any sense
[20:18] (Model) hi!!
[20:19] (Tango) number of (letras)
[20:19] (jfs) milano, well this is off-topic but i18n=internationalization (18 letters) and l10n =localization (10 letters)
[20:19] (Model) what is the topic of the conversation today??
[20:19] (milano) ok, sorry
[20:19] (jfs) anyhow, continuing with the topic that is, for the new "The Debian project"
[20:19] (MJesus) model, see the topic, and silent please
[20:20] (jfs) RedHat is closed to volunteers
[20:20] (Model) what education!!
[20:20] (MJesus) javier, who abouth the distribution of upm ?
[20:20] (jfs) since it wants to make its own market, so sometimes it looses things that people worked really hard into.
[20:21] (jfs) one example you have it in the contrib/ section of RedHat, completely different from the contrib/ in Debian, BTW
[20:21] (jfs) MJesus, what do you mean the UPM? what distribution?
[20:22] (jfs) Debian tries very hard to integrate all the efforts of everybody into the distribution
[20:22] (MJesus) upm have a distribution.... I remember ins'nt ?
[20:22] (jfs) and there is space for all kind of iniciatives
[20:22] (jfs) yes, Debian is really big and sometimes it is difficult
[20:23] (jfs) and yes, Debian is made up of volunteers and sometimes they cannot work at the same speed
[20:24] (jfs) so sometimes, some efforts, are lost, but it is not due to the distribution being completely closes
[20:24] (jfs) it is due to lack of resources in almost all cases
[20:25] (jfs) Ummm... Do we move on to the distribution?
[20:25] (CtrInt) MJesus Eurielec
[20:25] (jfs) Just some facts (for the marketing hype out there ;)
[20:26] (jfs) Currently there are about 500 developers
[20:26] (jfs) Estimates talk of one million users
[20:26] (jfs) (but that is really difficult to tell)
[20:27] (MJesus) one million users ???? de debian ????
[20:27] (jfs) Debian latest release: potato 2.2, which was BTW dedicated to the memory of a Debian developer Joel 'Espy' Klecker
[20:27] (jfs) yap, I do not know where I heard it so I cannot back it up ;)
[20:27] (jfs) (I told it was an estimate)
[20:28] (jfs) Debian 2.2 has about 4500 packages, it consists of 6 CDROMS of free software, and 2 CDs of add-ons (non-free/non-US)
[20:29] (jfs) Debian 2.2 supports six different architectures, way more than any other free software distribution
[20:29] (jfs) And unstable currently has over 5000 free software packages
[20:30] (jfs) and if the estimates of growth keep on, Debian 2.3 will have around 6750 packages
[20:30] (MJesus) but how many packages need a single user ?
[20:30] (horacio) 9,1 .
[20:30] (jfs) (since it grows around 50% from release to release)
[20:30] (jfs) MJesus, well that really depends on the user needs and I tell you, there is not a fixed profiel
[20:30] (jfs) (profile, sorry).
[20:30] (Hue-Bond) 2 CDs of add-ons? but they are unofficial, aren't they?
[20:31] (jfs) I cannot estimate right away the number of packages, for an end-user with X+office suite but could do if I had some time
[20:32] (jfs) Hue-Bond, yes, 2, and they are official but *cannot* be distributed in the official images.
[20:32] (jfs) You see, since CD vendors take the official images to use them to sell to end-users, there is some software in Debian
[20:33] (jfs) that cannot be, for example, sold, so cannot be placed on those CDs.
[20:33] (Hue-Bond) then where or how can someone get them?
[20:33] (jfs) This is the case of non-free
[20:33] (jfs) Oh, you need the debian-image scripts and a mirror of the distribution (somehow accesible)
[20:34] (Hue-Bond) ok, enough :)
[20:34] (jfs) Ok.. I also wanted to talk about the developers if you people want me to
[20:34] (jfs) Is the audicence still interested or I killed the last survivors?
[20:35] (Hue-Bond) please go on :)
[20:35] (horacio) 9,1 go on, please!!
[20:35] (milano) ies please
[20:36] (jfs) Ok... at least I have some people interested ;)
[20:36] (MJesus) the audicence still interested!!!!!!!!!!!
[20:36] (jfs) Ok. So the developers now, huh?
[20:36] (horacio) 9,1 of course!!
[20:36] (jfs) What do they do? How do ones become one? Do you really get to meet girls?
[20:37] (EntilZha) xDD
[20:37] (jfs) I have not got the change to work on the third case since I'm engaged ;)
[20:37] (jfs) The developers are the ones in charge of the Debian proyect, that is obvious, but they work on a variety of stuff
[20:38] (jfs) so even if people think they are not technically able there is place to make work in Debian
[20:38] (jfs) Developers maintain packages, that is, they take software, package it (following the guidelines), keep them out of bugs
[20:38] (jfs) and provide updates when the upstream software updates.
[20:39] (jfs) Sometimes they even *make* the packages themselves
[20:39] (jfs) The main point however, is to have the packages work seamlessly with the distribution, that is, to cooperate with
[20:39] (jfs) other packages, to provide the documentation in an easy way to the user, to configure using standard methods...
[20:40] (jfs) so that installing a debian package should never break your machine.
[20:40] (jfs) Developers also work on internal proyects.
[20:41] (jfs) For example, the FTP mirrors, the CDimages, the Web site, the packaging tools (dpkg, apt) or the installers
[20:42] (jfs) Developers constantly discuss on ways to improve Debian (debian-devel@lists.debian.org is really high traffic)
[20:43] (jfs) Also, they write documentation (available at http://www.debian.org/d oc, more specifically http://www.debian.org/doc/ddp)
[20:44] (jfs) There are also some internatl proyects, like Debian Jr. (a distribution for our lovely kids ;)
[20:44] (jfs) And yes, they sometimes receive donations from companies ;)
[20:45] (jfs) Since companies are interersted in porting Debian to other architectures
[20:45] (jfs) they provide machines for developers to work in
[20:45] (jfs) not everybody can afford a Sparc at home, or a Sidewinder
[20:47] (jfs) As a matter of fact, Compaq was currently giving Compaq's iPaqs away (a PDA, priced at 100.000 ptas here in Spain IIRC)
[20:47] (jfs) obviously not to everybody just to those working with it (so I do not have one :(
[20:48] (jfs) Ok... How do I become one?
[20:48] (jfs) Well I did become one before the proceeding changed, and it changed because Debian was growing quite a bit
[20:48] (jfs) and there had been some internal problems with developers
[20:48] (jfs) So the proceeding is open to everyone, but it takes some time before you get accepted
[20:49] (milano) what kind of problems?
[20:49] (jfs) milano, well let me just tell that some were *nasty* problems.
[20:50] (jfs) milano, mis-use of resources and such
[20:50] (milano) uf :(
[20:51] (MJesus) jfs I like to know abiut your prognosis over the widespread linux versus windows
[20:51] (MJesus) abuut
[20:51] (jfs) All the info is available at http://www.debian.org/devel/join/
[20:51] (MJesus) about
[20:52] (jfs) What a person interested to enter Debian should do is
[20:52] (horacio) 2,0 yes!!
[20:53] (jfs) first, contact the New Maintainer's Team, and identify itself
[20:53] (_RauL_) me
[20:53] (jfs) The indentification is tricky because the people at debian must be sure that the other person is who he says he is
[20:53] (jfs) (and that he is not really a dog)
[20:53] (CtrInt) heh
[20:54] (jfs) so this means two things:
[20:54] (jfs) - the person must send a ID that a person would trust along with a public key
[20:54] (jfs) - a person could get his public key signed by a Debian developer
[20:55] (jfs) For people who do not know what a public/private key is, lets just say that is like a digital signature that tells others
[20:55] (jfs) that you are telling them what you are telling them
[20:55] (CtrInt) Do you accept pgp?
[20:55] (jfs) For example, have you any means to say I'm really Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Peña?
[20:56] (jfs) (I could be just another person making up the whole conference ;)
[20:56] (CtrInt) or gpg only
[20:56] (jfs) CtrInt, yes PGP is used, but currently discouraged, GPG is prefered. The problem is there was not really a free substitute for PGP
[20:56] (Hue-Bond) it would be funny :)
[20:56] (jfs) some time back, so it is still used
[20:57] (jfs) Hue-Bond, yes. I'm not jfs but I'm really good impersonating ;)
[20:57] (jfs) So key-signing and the web of trust it creates is very important in Debian
[20:57] (jfs) how would you tell otherwise if a package sent by XYZ from a remote machine is really made by XYZ and not a trojan
[20:58] (jfs) that will blow off any Debian system it is installed in.
[20:58] (jfs) So, there are proceedings to get your key in.
[20:59] (CtrInt) mmm.. but anyway...
[20:59] (jfs) Then, an application manager is assigned that will "guide" the person in
[20:59] (jfs) because even though he is who he is he must also abide by the same documents other developers abide to.
[20:59] (CtrInt) debian packages doesn't support signatures
[20:59] (CtrInt) as i know, isn't it?
[20:59] (jfs) That is, he must understand what Debian is and what its goals are
[21:00] (jfs) CtrInt, you are right and that is changing since support is being added. But what *is* signed is part of the files that the developer
[21:00] (jfs) sends to the Debian FTP sites in order to introduce/upgrade packages.
[21:00] (CtrInt) aha, ok
[21:00] (jfs) People, are absolutely sure he sent it.
[21:00] (MJesus) jfs I like to know about your prognosis over the widespread linux versus windows
[21:01] (jfs) Package signing was not introduced yet because
[21:01] (jfs) (another difference from RedHat) there is no need of separate package pools besides the official one
[21:02] (jfs) that is beginning to change, however, because people want to be up to date and the developers might lag behind some times
[21:02] (jfs) so people take the debs insted of from Debian mirrors, from GNOME ones, for example...
[21:02] (jfs) so package signing is going to be introduce in the near future.
[21:02] (jfs) MJesus, Let me finish with the application process, almost done
[21:03] (jfs) After that the user understands the policy usually there is track of his prowess in the skills that he wants to work in
[21:03] (jfs) this is sometimes done through a sponsor (I sponsor currently some people here in Spain)
[21:04] (jfs) When the person has proven that he is who he says he is, that he understands what Debian is about, and that he can work on whatever he is interested in then he is accepted.
[21:04] (jfs) Really, this does not mean, at all, closeness in Debian. Just a little protection from unwanted people.
[21:05] (jfs) Although some people might feel that it takes time, people can contribute to Debian through a sponsor when they are not a debian maintainer yet.
[21:05] (jfs) Also, even if people are not maintainers they *do* work a lot in the Debian proyect.
[21:06] (jfs) For example, the people in the Debian mailing list are kind of the "support" personnel, when they answer a question of someone with problems they are helping Debian.
[21:06] (lcasco) hola
[21:06] (lcasco) hola Mjesus
[21:06] (lcasco) soy leonel
[21:06] (lcasco) pra la conferencia de DNS
[21:06] (jfs) Have I explained myself enough on the new-maintainer process??
[21:07] (jfs) Regarding linux versus windows. Who knows!
[21:08] (jfs) What Debian wants is to get to its goals, if this means people will *just* use Debian and windows will be dumped so be it.
[21:08] (jfs) But people are also free to throw away their money.
[21:08] (jfs) ; P
[21:09] (jfs) Anyhow, people need to know that they have alternatives, different, that might suits their needs, even better, than what they are currently using.
[21:09] (jfs) Debian does not pretend the world domination, but if it gets to do it, this just means that it's doing a good job and people use it because they like:
[21:09] (jfs) - the results
[21:09] (jfs) - the ideal
[21:10] (jfs) Ummm... that's about it.. I figure people have questions out there that have not been answered so let's hear some!
[21:11] (Hue-Bond) no questions on my part
[21:11] (FerZUn) i have one question about Debian
[21:12] (FerZUn) i about suport the diferen hardware
[21:12] (jfs) go ahead.
[21:13] (jfs) FerZun, what's the question?
[21:14] (FerZUn) because Debian have problem when one person put diferen aplication in the software for e.g. StarOffice
[21:15] (FerZUn) i put this software but all time give me problem
[21:15] (jfs) I do not fully understand the question, feel free to say it in spanish and I'll translate
[21:15] (FerZUn) ok
[21:15] (FerZUn) por que algunas veces Debian da problemas cuando se instala staroffice
[21:16] (FerZUn) muchas veces se quiebra el proceso
[21:16] (FerZUn) y manda error de librerias
[21:16] (FerZUn) a diferencia de otras distribuciones
[21:16] (jfs) ok. You're asking why Debian has problems when installing staroffice. The process breaks and give library errors.
[21:17] (FerZUn) yeah
[21:17] (jfs) I do not know the problem fully, but might be glibc related. I have succesfully and without any problems used/installed staroffice in a Debian potato system
[21:17] (jfs) As a matter of fact I used frequently at work.
[21:17] (Hue-Bond) me too :)
[21:18] (jfs) The problem might come if you use Debian 'woody', but I have not really encountered it so I can only adventure the cause... glibc
[21:18] (FerZUn) ok thanks
[21:18] (ismak) OK, Thanks Javier. We must finish with the conference.
[21:18] (jfs) However, StarOffice is quite a big piece of software since it does not use any of the system libraries, I think that if you do a 'ldd staroffice.bin'
[21:18] (jfs) you will find the problem.
[21:19] (jfs) Ok. Feel free to send me any questions you have regarding Debian, I do not do IRC often (sometimes, but not often ;)
[21:19] (jfs) but I'm always avaliable at the debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org mailing list (of course you can mail me personally too ;)
[21:20] (jfs) Thanks to all of you, it has been ... interesting and the audience has interacted, which I feared would not do freely.
[21:20] (EntilZha) xD
[21:21] (milano) thanks to you javier
[21:21] (EntilZha) thanks Javier
[21:21] (EntilZha) ;)
[21:21] (chawax) :)
[21:21] (EntilZha) bye all ;)
[21:21] (horacio) 2,0 ;)
[21:21] (jfs) BTW, I figure many of you are also at the debian-user mailing list ;)
[21:22] (ismak) Thank Javier, we hope see you again here
[21:22] (jfs) I ought to go now since I'm making my fiancee wait...
[21:22] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:22] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:22] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:22] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:22] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:22] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:22] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:22] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:23] (jfs) ;)
[21:23] (MJesus) Thank Javier..... thank you very much!
[21:23] (Hue-Bond) thx jfs, i'm leaving now
[21:24] (GoRiZt) thx Javier
[21:24] (lmarroyo) you don't give any laptop debian logo...:-)
[21:24] (jfs) Thanks to you all.
[21:24] (MJesus) y gracias a todos, por tan buenisima audiencia.....
[21:24] (jfs) I do have some logos for laptops, stickers really, if you are into any conference a Debian booth is (for example in Linux World in Madrid) I will gladly give you one
[21:25] (jfs) Muchas gracias a todos... muy divertido
[21:25] (CtrInt) when is linux world?
[21:25] (jfs) CtrInt, april 4-5 IIRC... let me check..
[21:26] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:26] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:26] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:26] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:26] (MJesus) plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas plas
[21:26] (MJesus) clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap
[21:26] (marius) MJesus: hi... you wanted me earlier?
[21:27] (MJesus) yes marius... but I d'ont remenber why
[21:27] (jfs) I hope I meet some of you in the real world ;)
[21:27] (jfs) Bye bye now
And we talking more ...

Contact: