viXard	Hi, good afternoon, as fernand0 said, Alvaro and I will explain to you what is Mono
viXard	and what is this platform about
viXard	this is the Free (Libre) version of .NET
viXard	we will talk about the technology and its consecuences
viXard	and the change it will cause on the free software world
viXard	Next, i´m gonna tell you what is .NET and what is Mono, after that Alvaro will talk about some little examples made in mono
viXard	to get familiarized with the environment
viXard	Go Ahead!
viXard	Well, .NET is a platform of development-multilanguage initiated by MS
viXard	it tryes to solve all thouse carencies brought by other technologies
josanabr	acs: una de las ventajas de java es que viene muchas clases estandarizadas por Sun
josanabr	acs: Microsoft, propietario de la tecnologia .NET que garantías da de dar sus clases para usarlas en mono?
acs	yes, but .NET has a lot of classes also, and they are standarized
arashi	viXard is giving the translation, be patient, he's on a big line now it seems ;)
josanabr	this classes are free?
josanabr	or i have to buy it?
dani	please questions in #qc
josanabr	ok, sorry...
acs	ok guys!
acs	i am going to try to translate to english
arashi	... der, i had missed that. thanks, zanshin, acs :)
acs	the distributes model in .NET and Mono is called Remoting
acs	it is similar to the CORBA model. To access the remote objects you use proxys. You don't need to know where the object is
acs	about the GUI libraries
acs	.NET has the Window.Forms library
acs	it is a nice library but currently Mono doesn't have 100% support for it
acs	in Mono we are using the Wine project so we can have a implementation as soon as possible
acs	about the virtual machine
acs	the concept is the same we have in Java
acs	but Java focus in one language, the Java language
acs	.NET plans to support also other languages like C, C++, Visual Basic, C#, Logo ...
dani	i'll try to translate skiping a lot things..
dani	the first thing we must do is to instal the compiler and the runtime
dani	if you use debian or redhat it's easy.. you have easily installable packets
dani	there are not lots of dependencies.
dani	in debian its enought with: apt-get install mono; apt-get install mcs
dani	once we have installed we can start playing with first program.. a simple "Hello world"
dani	the code will looks like that:
dani	[22:32:01] <acs> public static void Main (string[] args)
dani	[22:32:01] <acs> {
dani	[22:32:01] <acs>         System.Console.WriteLine ("Hola chicos de Umeet");
dani	[22:32:01] <acs> }
dani	here there is the main sample class method which we are working on, we are working with C# objects, like java, to make a simple function that writes a message
dani	we  need to build a class with that function (method)
dani	we just want to use that method, so we declare it static
dani	[22:33:54] <acs> class Hola {
dani	[22:33:54] <acs>         public static void Main (string[] args)
dani	[22:33:54] <acs>         {
dani	[22:33:54] <acs>                 System.Console.WriteLine ("Hola chicos de Umeet");
dani	[22:33:54] <acs>         }
dani	[22:33:55] <acs> }
dani	we have a sample that we can compile
dani	now its time to compile it
dani	acs@linex:/tmp$ mcs Hola.cs
dani	Compilation succeeded
dani	as it has a little amount of code, we don't neet to care about dependencies onothre libraries
dani	just use the default basic libraries like System class
dani	that's why its easi to compile
dani	[22:35:46] <acs> acs@linex:/tmp$ ls -l Hola.*
dani	[22:35:46] <acs> -rw-r--r--    1 acs      acs           116 dic  9 22:32 Hola.cs
dani	[22:35:46] <acs> -rw-r--r--    1 acs      acs          2048 dic  9 22:32 Hola.exe
dani	once we've compiled the result es a MSIL bytecode file
dani	Microsft Intermediate Language
dani	this generated language consists on Mono virtual machine instructions that indecates what to do to reach the targets of the program
-> *one2* op #redes arador
dani	the execution is also simple. we just need to call the virtual machine and tell it to execute  the MSIL we have generated..
dani	we reachi it with:   mono Hola.exe
dani	acs@linex:/tmp$ mono Hola.exe
dani	Hola chicos de Umeet
dani	the vm loading spead is very hight
dani	this contrasts with java vm that slows down a lot with simple programs
dani	<acs> acs@linex:/tmp$ date;mono Hola.exe;date
dani	[22:38:36] <acs> lun dic  9 22:36:32 CET 2002
dani	[22:38:36] <acs> Hola chicos de Umeet
dani	[22:38:36] <acs> lun dic  9 22:36:32 CET 2002
dani	that spends less than a seccond to load the vm and execute the code
dani	there exists many optimizations for executing a MSIL
dani	<acs> acs@linex:/tmp$ time mono Hola.exe
dani	[22:39:53] <acs> Hola chicos de Umeet
dani	[22:39:53] <acs> real 0m0.155s
dani	[22:39:53] <acs> user 0m0.080s
dani	[22:39:53] <acs> sys 0m0.010s
Arador	ok, i'll continue the translation
Arador	thaks to the advices from of sorrodp and pancacke here we've here a more exact estimation
Arador	we can see the MSIL that has been generated
Arador	with monodis, that it's a MSIL disassembler
Arador	<acs>   acs@linex:/tmp$ monodis Hola.exe
Arador	<acs>   .assembly extern mscorlib
Arador	<acs>   {
Arador	<acs>     .ver 0:0:0:0
Arador	<acs>   }
Arador	<acs>   .assembly 'Hola'
Arador	<acs>   {
Arador	<acs>     .hash algorithm 0x00008004
Arador	<acs>     .ver  0:0:0:0
Arador	<acs>   }
Arador	<acs>     .class private auto ansi beforefieldinit Hola
Arador	<acs>           extends [mscorlib]System.Object
Arador	<acs>     {
Arador	<acs>   ...
Arador	by the moment,  we're not going to enter in details of this code
Arador	now it's reached the time of giving the witness to raciel
Arador	so he can continue talking about Mono's technologies
Arador	<raciel>
Arador	now we can continue explaining a bit about graphic interfaces that we've available in Mono
Arador	<fernand0>      <Kefar> raciel: it was absolutely neccesary use NET to develop MONO?
Arador	<raciel> at the start when the compiler at mono started to being developed  it was dependant of NET (mcs) so it had to wait to being capable of compiling itself so we can say that isn't dependant of NET
Arador	the runtime ,the clasess library and the compiler in the same way you use Mono in windows, without any problem
Arador	good, i continue: in graphics interfaces we've System.Windows.Forms that' the clasess' library that windows uses to show graphic interfaces
Arador	in GNU/linux, when it started a port of GTK to GTK# was made by a Ximian developer, Mike Kestner with  the support of Richard Hestilow, who ported gtk to gtk#
petitxai	nas
Arador	the thechnical used to port was P/Invoke tha's the call to platform so we can do calss to dynamic libraries in other languages such as C
Arador	and example would be:
dani	[DllImport (libc.so, Entrypoint=gets)]
dani	this way we can use gets funcion in our program written in C#
dani	adapting types to the C# types
dani	after that we call it with something like   int extern gets() ...
dani	if you want more information there is a tutorial in spanish at mono.es.gnome.org
dani	there are also documentation at msdn.microsoft.com
dani	Xlib and QT are portet to C# too.. this way you can use the easy API of C#
dani	this way we can do it easier to make an aplication in time costs. an aplication build with C, could be build in less time and easily
dani	an other isue that mono gives us is what is called as Reflexion
dani	that alows us to query about object properties and assemblies on runtime. this way we can know wicht methods belongs to a class and more information..
dani	just comment that there is a project called OpenJIT that is a Jutter in native language that uses reflexion and invoques to the plataform to translate interchange code to native code.
dani	other tecnologies supported are standards like Web Services
-> *one2* op #redes vizard
dani	<nerdwell> C# source can be compiled on .NET and MONO? and keep compatibility?
dani	yes, you can compile on .net and afterwards execute on MONO with absolute comatibility and viceversa
-> *one2* op #redes vixard
-> *one2* op #redes arador
viXard	sorry guys
viXard	i got late so i can't translate it all
viXard	the complete translation will be on log files
Arador	ok, we're having some problems with the translation, i'll continue the translation when i have the full logs
Arador	i start from 22:49 in #linux
Arador	<ldipenti> a question, i've not ver clear hoe's the thing with the MS patents a bout .NET, isn't dangerous to work in a technology that is controlled by a enterprise that's not good as we know? what will happen when MS chage the conditions of their platform?
Arador	<DrBig_Bec> how it's implemented thee garbage collector in mono? it's like the Sun's Java?
Arador	<raciel>ldipenti: the thing is that the patents thing is a very fragile problem
Arador	<ldipendi> of course. and because it's very fragile, wouldn't better to assure yourself before starting that proyect?
Arador	<raciel> but if you have a standard wich is ECMA and you do a free implementation, you're not going to break any patent
Arador	<viXard>tra: DrBig_Sec: how's mono implementing the garbage recollector? it's how Sun Java?
Arador	<ldipenti> what will happen when, thnks to Mono, .NET has a huge number of users, and then MS closes all?
Arador	<raciel>ldipenti: the runtime thing it's a standar, after that, if .NET does things above that, then yes, it's dangerous
Arador	<ldipenti> Then, one can't be sure?
Arador	<jmgv> raciel sasc... what types of agreements do you have with MS? it's transfered information or it's even more?
Arador	<raciel> but by the moment there's not any problem, but i'm no layer...
Arador	<raciel> jmvg: any, only i'm talking of mono as a framework, there isn't anything evil behind...
Arador	ldipenti: thanks raciel
Arador	jmvg raciel, that's not the thing, i only tried to show MS intentions, not yours, which are good
Arador	raciel: DrBig_Bec: that's the IBM implementation, it only uses generations, when your objects brings X generations it's deallocated from memory
Arador	jmvg but i don't trust in m$, the broke agreements i.e: with sun
Arador	<raciel> but there is some documentation about that in www.go-mono.com in papers section.
Arador	raciel: but'sjmvg: about that i can only tell you that the ECMA is who makes that the standards aren't broken and each change in the runtime's base has to be consulted and added to the specification
Arador	Kefar: raciel: What advances .NET in the colaborative implementation ? i think that it's a bit unilateral
Arador	raciel: Keafr:  people are annoyed with MS wth that, because mono is a proyect that with only 100 developers has gorown quickly, now yourself can use the framework, except some small things as System.Windows.Forms
Arador	raciel: For example, in the thing of accessing databases is frankly passed, in the same way that ASP.NET now ther's a implementation made by Gonzalo Panigua
Arador	raciel: now, in my opinion mono is walking quickly, and with the colaboration from everyone wil be completed faster than before
Arador	Kefar: in my opinion, i'm sorry.....you're being used as testers
Arador	raciel: so if you're interester in Mono Hispano, it's a comunity that's trying to cover proyects, documenting.....about mono, so it's a good way to enter in contact
Arador	raciel: in mono.es.gnome.org you've references to documentation, mailing lists where you can ask
Arador	Kefar: i don't see it in the same way, only you're implementing a free alternative to .NET
Arador	jmgv: mono is part of gnome, yes?
Arador	raciel: jmvg: no :)
Arador	viZard: mono it's from Ximian :)
Arador	raciel: but they gave us the proyect's hosting and the dns is that
Arador	viXard: I think XD
Arador	jmvg: raciel...
Arador	jmvg: don't misunderstood me
* MaSaRo is away: Estoy ocupado
* MaSaRo is back (gone 00:00:06)
* MaSaRo is away: ZzzzZzZZzZZZzZZZ
Arador	well, i think the conferency has finished, sorry aboud the huge delays in the translation, i don't have a dvorak keyboard as riel
Arador	anyway, we've done our bests
Arador	*sigh*
riel_	well done Arador
sarnold	hehehehe :) thanks for translating at all... :) you're much better at it than I :)
Arador	sarnold: indeed
Arador	i always look at the keyboard when typing, it's good when you have to look at the screen at the same time you write, manias from years ago...
Arador	and of course blame the xchat developers, i can't cut & paste in xchat itself, i've to retype *everything*
sarnold	really? and people still use xchat? :)
Arador	the middle button of the mouse doesn't work, i reinstalled the box yesterday......i've only crap :)
sarnold	Arador: does paste work in xterm? :)
Arador	in gnome-terminal it works, that's what i used for copying code, but it was faster to type some things than c&p from less
Arador	well xchat c&p used to work, but they must have too many users, so they decided to annoy people
Session Close: Mon Dec 09 23:43:53 2002

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