| Lovechild | let's get ready to rumble !! |
|---|---|
| tarzeau | i wonder why there's another distribution? (i'm surprised how popular gentoo got, haven't tried it myself though) |
| tarzeau | i mean you take some policies of debian, why not do a ports system FOR debian? |
| chadh | tarzeau: Gentoo *is* the ports system |
| ShawnX | clap clap clap? oh im so behind today :( |
| tarzeau | chadh: hmm it's also the name of the distribution, no? |
| tarzeau | ShawnX: either that, or too early yet |
| Lovechild | seemant: what about the reference platform, that's binaries tight= |
| @seemant | yes, I'll get to that :) |
| gerk | seemant: you go baby ;) |
| chadh | tarzeau: My point is that what makes Gentoo unique is the ports system. If you add the portage to another distribution, it essentially would be Gentoo |
| ShawnX | tarzeau: for the JFS presentation ;-) |
| tarzeau | chadh: i was on #gentoo a few weeks ago and aksed if it'd be possible to have gentoo's portage system (emerge and stuff) in *any* linux distribution, i didn't get any useful answer |
| tarzeau | chadh: well or, it was it's specific to something |
| ShawnX | tarzeau: i was working on something like that |
| tarzeau | chadh: just like the freebsd's ports, or netbsd's to netbsd... |
| ShawnX | but it uses Imake :-) |
| ShawnX | i call it iports |
| chadh | tarzeau: yes, you could. Although our ebuilds are specific to our init system and file hierarchy |
| tarzeau | i think one is based on another openbsdo or freebsd on netbsds or some way somehow (correct me if i'm wrong) |
| chadh | tarzeau: It really comes down to defining what a distribution is: Is it the packages offered, the location of those packages, and the init system? More, less? |
| tarzeau | chadh: true, i will not try to answer these questions |
| chadh | tarzeau: me either. It is very murky, and porting package managers to different distributions just makes is murkier |
| Lovechild | seemant: can we expect ELF prelinking as a feature in 1.4 final ? |
| lostlogic | Lovechild: yes. |
| lostlogic | Lovechild: portage support is already completed by Carpaski. |
| carpaski | It will be public/stable shortly. |
| Lovechild | lostlogic: cool, I heard cretin talking about it, but is it really safe yet? |
| lostlogic | Lovechild: my system and carpaski's systems are runing with it problem free so far. |
| Lovechild | lostlogic: cool |
| lostlogic | Lovechild: the biggest problem for me is the length of time it can to reprelink things... |
| lostlogic | s/to/to take/ |
| Lovechild | lostlogic: I already spend hours compiling, what's a few minutes to relink |
| lostlogic | Lovechild: trunuf. |
| samiam | with Gentoo neing source based, would it make an easier linux to use for embedded applications? |
| lostlogic | samiam: that is one of our goals as portage and the gentoo base system is getting ported to more platforms. We are also working to continue supporting 2.2 kernels as 2.2 is a much smaller kernel for embeded applications. |
| Crast | samiam: actually, i'm working on using gentoo as a base for a mini linux distro, a 'linux on key' to put it on a usb key flash device for x86 platforms, to use as a portable linux system you can use anywhere, but unlike the business card linux, actually be read-write |
| samiam | that sounds reasonable, a friend just went through the pain of paring down a RedHat install for this purpose... |
| mcp | huhu |
| Crast | samiam: with portage it's really easy, as you can specify USE flags which don't compile stuff you won't be using. |
| MrGrim | Does gentoo plan to try to make itself available to all users eventually or does it plan to continue to offer itself as a "not for everyone" distribution? |
| samiam | Crast: that sounds really cool, always been kinda partial to the bootable business card. I've been waiting for 1.4 to give you guys a try... really anxious now |
| Crast | samiam: cool. my project is not an official part of the gentoo project, just a personal side project... dunno where it's going to go, but i'll be sure to let the internet world know :) |
| samiam | thanks for the effort, looking forward to hearing more about your side-project Crast... Thanks for the answers |
| Crast | samiam: sure thing. |
| lostlogic | MrGrim: the only thing that keeps everyone from using gentoo is the install process... and there is work in progress to make a more graphical installation process. |
| tarzeau | is there some page like freshports or debianhelp for gentoo? |
| MrGrim | have the developers thought of the possible implications of losing their original fan base as they attempt to move to such an install process? Part of the alure of gentoo as its "Get your hands dirty in the nitty gritty of linux" sort of image... |
| lostlogic | MrGrim: we aren't worried about that, because we will (or I will die) continue to have a simple and bare bones console install procedure. That was one of the things which first brought me to the project. |
| Crast | hopefully just like the linux kernel moved to the gtk kconfig, but kept menuconfig and make config, they will keep the text install |
| Crast | ah lolo, beat me to it. |
| lostlogic | :-D |
| psypete | comment to seemant about current talk: the ARM processor is also supposedly being ported (though i have not confirmed) |
| MrGrim | lostlogic: cool =) |
| @seemant | see #linux, peter :P |
| Lovechild | seemant: it would be nice if you mentioned the massive documentation effort done by the developers and users of Gentoo, one of the most valueable asserts of Gentoo |
| psypete | seemant: hehe |
| MrGrim | yes gentoo is extremely well documented which is one of my fav parts |
| psypete | i also love the fact that gentoo is open-minded enough to have a package called "pornview" |
| MrGrim | hahaha |
| samiam | :-) |
| psypete | ;-D |
| @sarnold | optimizing the common case? :) |
| MrGrim | a custom optimized pornview at that |
| Lovechild | sarnold: optimize do nothing loops... like microsoft :) |
| vertex | Currently, organization of perl modules is a bit messy( if you have a ton of them like I do). Are there any plans to integrate CPAN insto portage? If not, will you continue to write ebuild for all modules? This could take lots of overhead. |
| Crast | MrGrim: what does it do? i cant find that package |
| psypete | if you happen to test out pornview, you might notice it may or may not build; if it does not, you can visit bugs.gentoo.org, which i'm sure seemant will cover soon |
| mcp | how about security in gentoo? are daemons like bind, apache per default chrooted? |
| MrGrim | I dunno actually... I think it's an app to organize your... picture... collection |
| psypete | *HINT* |
| psypete | *@SEEMANT* |
| chadh | vertex: We have a very cool response to that |
| Lovechild | the documentation forums is awesome |
| chadh | vertex: unfortunately, I'm not the one to tell you about it |
| psypete | (feedback such as bug reports on bugs.gentoo.org ;) |
| tarzeau | how many gentoo developers exist today? |
| lostlogic | I'm not sure if daemons run chrooted, but I know they do run unprivledged. |
| lostlogic | tarzeau: see the devlist accessible from gentoo.org |
| Lovechild | psypete: maybe it's my karma... but I've gotten only bvery little response on any bug reports on bugzilla. |
| chadh | tarzeau: http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/devlist.xml |
| sethbc | Lovechild: i make sure to respond to all the bugs i get as soon as i get a chance, which is usaully within 8 hours |
| tarzeau | chadh: thanks |
| psypete | Lovechild: you may even never get response. but commonly someone will find the bug and fix it or report it to someone else. (i've found in my limited experience :D) but it's also a good idea to report bugs to the maintainer or creater of the package that failed, or to come on irc and bug the devs about it ;) |
| Lovechild | sethbc: I only just got a reassignment mail for my bug on software raid via none EVMS on the liveCD today |
| tarzeau | what's so special about your bug tracking system? |
| sethbc | Lovechild: yeah sometimes they slip through and it depneds on who's getting the bugt, but by and large the system gets better every day |
| Lovechild | but for ebuild submission bugzilla ROCKS HARD |
| lostlogic | Lovechild: a lot of the time a bug won't get much attention if we just don't have a good solution to it... but rest assured we won't ignore it... |
| lostlogic | tarzeau: nothing particularly, just how we use it is fairly unique |
| Lovechild | lostlogic: good, because as it is, I have to rely on gentoo 1.2 to get software raid without EVMS |
| tarzeau | and is there something like www.apple.com/switch or /why_debian page for gentoo? |
| sethbc | tarzeau: heh i'll get right on that ;-) |
| sethbc | tarzeau: gentoo.org/switch with video =P |
| vertex | chadh: dude, you can't leave me hanging like that? |
| chadh | vertex: seemant is addressing it right now |
| tarzeau | sethbc: heh :) |
| Crast | sethbc: that would be awesome. but doesnt the about page sorta do that function? the 'larry the cow switched to gentoo' one? |
| chadh | Gentoo is like .... cool. |
| sethbc | Crast: yeah but larry the cow isn't will ferrel |
| vertex | sweet! |
| chadh | vertex: it actually generates a temporary ebuild and them merges that. |
| Crast | sethbc: ;-) I think larry the cow is much cooler though |
| mcp | cool. emerge Net: ... stuff |
| sethbc | very |
| tarzeau | sethbc: seen ellen feiss? |
| sethbc | tarzeau: i'm partial to janie porche, but we're getting ot ;-) |
| vertex | i own ellen feiss ;) |
| psypete | rofl. |
| @seemant | questions, people? |
| chadh | "And it was a good distro! I had to repartition, reformat really quickly. Needless to say, it wasn't nearly as good" |
| mcp | seemant: yes. do you know gentoo runs daemons like apache, bind etc. in a chrooted env.? lostlogic wasn't sure |
| vertex | The perl module issue was my only hangup about gentoo. Now that it has been addressed, I can say, without a doubt, gentoo is the most powerful distro ever. |
| mcp | seemant: perfect |
| gerk | seemant: sing! sing! |
| ShawnX | heh |
| mcp | seemant: does gentoo handle the emerge stuff somewhat like debian? via /etc/apt/sources.list? |
| psypete | seemant: gentoo seems like a neat distribution, but i hear that it's got trouble when it comes to adding packages that don't have this thing... the 'GPL' or something? what's the deal with licenses? |
| MrGrim | seemant: sing sing sing sing |
| vertex | seemant: sing... |
| vertex | Lovechild: I'm looking for you on /. page, am I missing it? |
| Crast | psypete: seemant removed the +m on #linux, you can ask in there |
| gerk | seemant: does Gentoo work on more than jsut x86? ;) |
| Lovechild | vertex: And Lovechild writes with some more 2.6 news: "I recently did an inteview with famous kernel hacker extraordinare and all round nice guy Robert M. Love for Tinyminds.org, about kernel 2.6 and what can be expected for desktop Linux users, when the new kernel series is released. |
| psypete | Crast: i know, but i don't wanna mess up the flow of seeman'ts |
| Crast | psypete: ah. |
| psypete | gerk: i hear they can run it on those Apples now... |
| gerk | psypete: really? cool ;) |
| mcp | seemant: sounds really nice :) thnx ... I think I have to have a look at gentoo after I finished wolk4 :) |
| psypete | one guy even mentioned his kernel running in 10 spark stations or something... |
| vertex | Lovechild: you are officially a geek superstar ;-) |
| @seemant | mcp: I believe we even offer wolk in the portage tree :) |
| mcp | seemant: wooohoo |
| Lovechild | vertex: hehe... my mission is complete... to kill the tinyminds,org server |
| mcp | seemant: great :) I am pretty sure gentoo users will like wolk4 server edition :) |
| sethbc | mcp: oh a server edition eh? |
| vertex | gerk: I can tell you that gentoo runs great on apple hardware. |
| gerk | vertex: cool :) |
| @seemant | vertex: meet gerk -- team lead for Gentoo's PPC port :) |
| sethbc | gerk: hrm you ever run on apple hardware =0 |
| mcp | sethbc: yep, only good, fast, stable, needed stuff w/o all that experimental patches that are in wolk3.x now :) I decided to do so some days ago and many of the wolk users really appreciate it. |
| gerk | seemant: arch plug? ;) |
| sethbc | mcp: i would *really* like that...gonna have preempt low lat stuff in it? |
| mcp | sethbc: and for sure, security related things. |
| vertex | oh, i feel quite privledged to meet you. Kudos for some great work! I longed for the days of LinuxPPC, and then came gentoo... |
| sethbc | vertex: yeah i'm on my tibook right now ;-) |
| mcp | sethbc: yep, but in a really cleaner way now, 3.x had some issues with this. It was soo difficult to merge new versions of patches into the 2.4.18 tree (which wolk3 was based on) |
| gerk | vertex: much thanks :) |
| mcp | sethbc: also rmap will go in :) (almost done) |
| sethbc | mcp: oh i love rmap, what are you basing 4 on 2.4.20? |
| psypete | i have a question! oh! oooh! |
| mcp | sethbc: yep, 2.4.20 |
| sethbc | mcp: whats the eta if you don't mind me asking? |
| psypete | i'll wait for seemant to be done with this question before i ask |
| mcp | sethbc: if all goes the good way [tm] ;) I think in ~ 1 week for wolk4 server edition. |
| psypete | mcp: what is wolk? (off topic so you can PM me if you wish to answer) |
| sethbc | psypete: working overloaded linux kernel |
| mcp | sure I wish :) but I think its kinda on-topic because sethbc and me are talking about :) |
| mcp | psypete: http://wolk.sf.net |
| psypete | i like the penguin. |
| sethbc | mcp: yeah, i'm lookin forward to a little stripped down version, a lot of the patches were nice, some weren't so nice ;-) |
| mcp | and before any1 says: nah, very empty homepage, I know :) I have to put up a new homepage which much more info, url's, expplainations while xmas |
| mcp | sethbc: :-) ack |
| @seemant | shut up peter |
| mcp | hu? |
| psypete | sorry :) didnt know you had more developer examples |
| gerk | seemant: multi-arches plug? ;) |
| tarzeau | do you work together with any other distro, developers? |
| tarzeau | what are other distros to you? |
| gerk | seemant: mozilla is a GRP pkg btw |
| sToneheAd | oh |
| mcp | sethbc: maybe you (gentoo) can also take my 2.2.xx-secure tree (intended purpose is for servers etc.). Or does no one of gentoo users use 2.2.xx anymore? |
| sethbc | mcp: well gentoo relies heavily on devfs |
| chadh | mcp: I'm sure we would love to have it |
| sethbc | mcp: but it would be sweet |
| Lovechild | mcp: only a very few gentoo users are registered as using 2.2 I think, but we can always offer the option |
| sToneheAd | yes my concern is that, if i want bleeding age, i could mess up my system if something doesnt works as it was supossed to, so the reason i ask it is that i have concern about QA more than bleeding age |
| mcp | sethbc & chadh: ok :-) |
| sethbc | mcp: i'll draw up an ebuild for it |
| mcp | cool |
| Lovechild | sethbc: you're an ebuilding machine... |
| @carpaski | one sec... Changing boxes real quick. |
| sethbc | Lovechild: heh not really, i don't do that many, i should do more ;-) |
| Lovechild | sethbc: any chance we can an update the the ebuilders guide so we can see how to use IUSE and all the other features and are nice but noone knows about? |
| mcp | Lovechild: you also work for/with gentoo? |
| sethbc | Lovechild: hrm i'll talk to people on the doc team |
| chadh | Is this channel being logged? |
| Lovechild | mcp: I maintain some media ebuilds, and I test stuff like prelinking |
| mcp | Lovechild: cool |
| mcp | Lovechild: mjc said, prelink is a very good thing. Can you confirm this? |
| Lovechild | Can't open perl script "/home/david/-jp.sinfo": No such file or directory |
| Lovechild | cat: /proc/ide/hde/model: No such file or directory |
| Lovechild | [OS] Linux 2.4.18-wolk3.8 :: [Uptime] 6 hrs 48 mins 58 secs :: [CPU] 1-AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1600+ @ 1405 MHz (256 KB) :: [Memory] 186/514M Mb (36.25%) :: [Video] ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500] @ 1024x768 (24 bit) :: [Disk] 28.4/77.0 Gb (37% of ) :: [Network] Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) (28.46M In, 8.74M Out) |
| Lovechild | Wolk works just fine on Gentoo :) |
| mcp | wooohoo |
| mcp | :-) |