viZard	Hello, welcome to the end of the 9th day on umeet 2002
eep	glad to be here
viZard	tonight, Gustavo González will talk about Orquidea: una distribucion Linux desde las Universidades (a Linux distribution from Universities)
viZard	with you all, Gustavo (xtingray)
viZard	Orquidea OS Project: A Linux distro from Universities
viZard	The main target of this speech is to offer a proposal focused to all developing countries (specially south-american ones) trying to promote their evolution in terms of computer technologies.
viZard	This is not a technical speech, but logistic and it refers to a proposal for improving the academical teaching condition of the future System Engineers on the so-called third world countries.
viZard	I hope this presentation will be useful for the most part of you and your pleasure
garoeda	more or less live on #taee
viZard	Theoric Part
viZard	On Latin America, current education system works mechanically and not much evolutionary.
viZard	Although evaluation methods and some academic contents are modified through the years, the teaching process is designed in a way that wastes the resources and abilities of some people that each year lost their opportunity of being potential geniuses, and in the best case they finally get a professional degree to be the employee of someone.
viZard	This cycle repeats every year, new "pseudo" professionals goes to the competitive labour market to increase unemployment numbers. This is our reality, at least on Colombia and I think it is not too different on our neighbour countries.
viZard	But then, what is the lack of our education systems?
viZard	From my point of view, the error is on the way that is oriented the teaching process. On each one of its stages, the process is not centred on the person, but the society; a society characterized for being uniform in all aspects; including technological ones, on which the academic level tends to be mediocre on all the population.
viZard	Competitiveness between people who is studing is something that is told to be wide spread but in practice it's difficult to find clearly. In the same way many things are written by the Ministry of Education and the education institutions of the country, but one thing is what it is said on the statutes and another is what is seen at reality.
viZard	Our education systems are not worried on trying to detect and evolve the most talented people, they just make a generic herd where differences between ones and others are minimal.
viZard	Moreover, it should be considered that during educational process, one person is considered as a member of an active society and the country economy in the moment that the person is of age (18 years old), that generally is when he finishes his secondary basic education.
viZard	On this stage and in the best case, this person is put to an skills test to define his professional vocation.
viZard	Except on some cases as sportsman/sportswoman. In our education system the professional vocation is considered too late.
viZard	Could you imagine what had happened if Marcelo Tossati would have waited until his 18 years old to say for first time: "I want to learn Linux"? If Marcelo would have born in Colombia, surely nobody would know him :(
viZard	I'm sure that Latin America is full of genius as Marcelo or as Rik Van Riel, but with the characteristics of our educational systems, we are losing them... and it's in that way that our countries are losing their developing capability.
viZard	Moreover, from the group of people that finishes their university studies and decide to make a specialization or a master outside the country, a few of them returns to our country... from these, some just do it as "tourists". In other words, the best part of the knowledge of our country is outside it. If not the best, at least a great part of the useful knowledge.
viZard	Being specific at computing field, those who get their specialization without going abroad, generally finish as teachers on Universities of the country and if they make research projects, their repercussion is not associated with the country reality.
viZard	Is it useful to create a new logic or functional programming paradigm where nobody pay for the propietary software licenses because they don't have moeny? Meanwhile computer problems in Latin America are of one kind, our computer scientifics (PHD's and magisters) are thinking on how to resolve the problems of the rest of developed countries, so later we have to "buy" (make illegal copies) the software that they sell us.
viZard	Would it be a nice explanation of why there are not big software companies in Colombia known all over the world? Is this question extendable to other latin american countries? Surely it is.
viZard	With this problems, and focusing on the area which I brought up as Computer Engineer, one morning I decided to start the development a proposal that would help to the revolution of the traditional education systems on the computer technologies field of the developing countries. It was that morning when started: Orquidea OS Project.
viZard	What is Orquidea OS?
viZard	The basic definition is simple: Orquídea is a project that tries to develop a colombian Linux distribution from all the university campus of all the country.
viZard	Although the idea only get two lines, to imply hundreds of sub-projects, trying to improve the teaching process of the Universities at the Computer Science field.
viZard	In spite of the project is initially oriented to the superior basic education (Universities), it aspires by its nature and trascendence to affect the lower teching levels (primary and secondary school) through the time, in a country where someone who knows how to install an antivirus and Windows XP is considered as Engineer.
viZard	It's easy to think that if you want to restructuration an education process,
viZard	the best it's to start by the starting steps, perhaps focusing in a infantile age, however the conditions and characteristics of the society that belong to developing countries
viZard	make that the ideal converts into impossible
viZard	Some time ago y designed a metodology for the teaching of computer technologies
viZard	Free Software based in a 2 basic level and, despite of our efforts we did,
viZard	we couldn't implement it in any college.
viZard	Without saying that the help of the government's entities are utopic when
viZard	these companies influence to politicians with their buying power.
viZard	Due to these motivations, i decided to develop a second proposal (Orquídea) and
viZard	carry it to a fertile and opened to new proposals ambient: Universities
viZard	Why to develop a new distro?
viZard	The first time i published the idea in a COlombian mailing list about Free Softare they almost crucified me for suggesting the proyect
viZard	If there're so may, why to start a new one? What would the difference? Why not to join to the debian proyect?
viZard	All kind of criticisms were made public in a pair of days and only a few people cared about the proyect
viZard	That few people, almost all academic people from the university, saw of some way the potential that has to develop all the structure of the OS
viZard	About the justification of the proyect there's a lot to say, but the most important is to say that there're reasons out of the technology field and then there're the social problems that some latinoamerican countries live, some of them exclusive of COlombia, such as losting the nacional identity and narcotraffic.
viZard	Being short in reasons, these are some of the justifications that give the origin to this proyect:
viZard	The finality of the development of a new linux distro isn't to get the final implementation, but to win in experience, the knowloedge, and the capacity of implementating all the stages of the development.
viZard	Nowadays, in our country there isn't a lot of peopl with engieneers with the ability of developing a kernel module, i can count them with the fingers of my hand :(
viZard	Why a news distr0? To evolute the level of our students to the level of the best of the world and at the same time, the Orquidea's implementation allows new proyects that can be suppoerted over it, as language development, aplicattions, etc....
viZard	Why not to join to an existent proyect? Given the social conditions that our country is crossing, it's imperative to fomentnt proyects that can stimulate the nacional identity. Though it may sound incredible, if a proposal of joining to a foreign developmente were made by comlombians, surely they weren't too much and surely with the time the proposal would disappear
viZard	The Orquidea proyect not only wants to increase the academic level of the students, but also give creability to the potential that this conuntry has oas developer country of technology oin computer science. Thes reason is valid to other developing countries? I think so.
viZard	What's the state of the Orquidea proyect?
viZard	Though the idea arised some months ago, the proyect has begun recently and has beed adopted but an investigation group (Atures Group) of the University Mariana de Pasto (Pasto is the patial of the Nariño's departament - Colombia) who wants to generate the firsts bases of the proyect that allos to other universities to join the idea
viZard	In this moment, there's a process of asigning a URL to host the proyect, but there's a temporal page about the first asociated research group:
viZard	http://www.kazak.ws/orquidea/Atures/
viZard	For the firsts months of the next 2003 year, i hope to contact with docents and studiants of THe University of Antioquia in MEdellin (MEdellin is the capital of the Antioquia's Departament - Colombia) to manage their join to the proyect
viZard	The convocatory is opened to all the universities of Colombia (though i don¡'t know if exist and foreign university that wants to join...if it exist, they're welcomed)
viZard	What's the development's proyect proposd for Orquidea S.O.?
viZard	How i said, actualy the project is bornning, are a lot of items to define, however, particularly i develop some of the ideas that will part of the program of the distro in a text(in spanish) that can be consulted at: http://www.kazak.ws/orquidea.php
viZard	However, independently of until now we planned, the vital stage of the creation of Orquidea S.O. is that the planning stage also be product of the students of computer sciencie interested to participate.
viZard	Aditionaly, part of the program developement design will be compound by an study about the implementation models of some of the already existent distros like Debian, Conectiva, etc. This is for create an work planning based on old successful experiences.
viZard
viZard	Independentment of the program developement design, we estimate that the project will begin to offer results before a year, not necesarie showed in a Linux distro but in the academic quality of students.
viZard	Conclusions
viZard	The expectatives about the results that offer the Orquidea S.O. development are really big, because the intention is be capable of covering all the components and stages related to the implementation of an Operating System based in the actual state of some popular Linux distros and the evolution of the generic kernel.
viZard	The idea for make a presentation about this project at UMEET is to share this initiative with the remain of people coming from spanish speaking countries, to foment the education of investigation groups and develop Orquidea's kind projects at academic level at all Latinamerica.
viZard	Don't import how much complex or advanced are a technologie... always will be related to a social scenario.
viZard	Thanks you
viZard	Applauses :-)
viZard	To answer the first question, by vizard: how is that a linux from universities?
viZard	tha basic idea is that every university creates an investigation group dedicates to the project
viZard	the groups should conform a communication network allowing them to atack subprojecrs
Vegas	viZard: Can you tell us some more about the technological part like how roles will be distributed, who will do what... ?
viZard	you can ask the speaker at #qc :-)
Vegas	k
viZard	too fast to translate :-(
viZard	<M4rc0> xtingray: it is required to be an university student to join the project?
viZard	not at all
viZard	everybody is welcome
viZard	<E0x> xtingray: how exactly will merge student classes and the project?
Vegas	everyone spanish i guess
viZard	This is a delicate issue...
viZard	from my point of view, we can make a balance between career program and the project
viZard	<E0x> so, this project can be used as example or part of the classes ?
viZard	in a sort of way, yes, but as i told you before, to get  a balance is a hard task.. because it means to find the content of the project applied to some classes
viZard	<nitcom> xtingray: developpe a distro, from what base or point of start?
viZard	This question was made to me when i was at pasto...
viZard	the answer of that question says a lot about our level in free technology terms
viZard	we should capacite ourselves.. and that is something the artures of pasto group has just begun to di
viZard	even some member, started from scratch
viZard	the evolutive cicle initially proposed to the students is based in this steps:
viZard	- Basic user
viZard	- Advanced user
viZard	- System adm
viZard	- System developper
viZard	<E0x> xtingray let´s see, every software or packages developped will be integrated on stable version of orquidea?
viZard	good question...
viZard	the desicions of what goes to the SO will be taken by a commitee...
viZard	shit, hard word next
viZard	hipotethically ?
sarnold	(hypothetically)
viZard	thanks
viZard	hypothetically integrated by the best of our universities
viZard	<debUgo-> xtingray: you were talking about "the implementation of an operating system based on the actual state of....the evolution of the generic kernel". is the generic kernel going to be used? Right now, almost none distribution use the "vanilla" kernel, why do it now?
viZard	debUgo... it is not about the generic kernel...is about using it as a tool for learning
viZard	when i sean "it will be based.."... i´m not talking about copy/paste of code..i´m talking about study, analissys and developpment
viZard	<nitcom> xtingray: have you heard about the plug? (peruvian linux user group) why not start from something done, and put into a latinamerican level?
viZard	nitcom... we will start from something done.. the thing is to put the project in a social level to put colombia where it belongs
viZard	i insist, the project is for an academic purpose, not comercial.
viZard	<Samael> where can i search about this project?
viZard	http://www.kazak.ws/orquidea.php
viZard	<Vegas> xtingray: Can you tell us some more about the technological part like how roles will be distributed, who will do what... ?
viZard	this question is kind of hard to answer.. but i can give some lights about it
viZard	like i said, part of this project consist in not just prepare students to be ready in some technical skills
viZard	but to organizate the logistic of all the event, so we can have one big project goal
viZard	there will be an evaluation commitee, in charge of new releases...
viZard	and an organizing commitee defining chronograms and stuff...
viZard	We could suggest groups like "drivers developpers".. "X developpers"..."file system developpers"... etc
viZard	<Maite> I suppose universitities inside the project, will put the Orquidea project as elective class...
viZard	Dunno, but people allways asociates to the project some kind of ?obligataryty?, wich is not true
viZard	<Vegas> xtingray: in security terms, isn't it dangerous to let students code modules and programs that can be backdoored ?
viZard	Orquidea will be an Open Source project, besides behind every new release there will be an evaluation commitee to garanteed the integrity of the code
viZard	:-)
viZard	i thought you din´t understand my crappy english ;-)
Vegas	thats ok bud
viZard	<M4rc0> xtingray: is there going to be a link between the project and universities? i mean a person, of course
viZard	this is part of ideal, to get the job well coordinated !
viZard	end of questions?
Vegas	yea i think
eep	Will their be a transcript of this?
viZard	<debUgo-> xtingray: i guess some "continuity" problems may appear, ie: a senior group that were working on a specific task have graduated, and they never have been seen.... who will continue their work?
sarnold	eep: http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2002/english/des.eng.html
eep	ty
viZard	is some students are gone and there was nobody to continue the work, the professor reports the situation to the task commitee or something like that, and they decide what other group will continue the job
viZard	i won´t translate what is being said at #qc, no sir !
Vegas	please do
Vegas	im not spanish
xtingray	je je je ;)
viZard	About this project we can debate a lot of topics...
viZard	the important is that this debate becomes part of the planification :)
-sarnold- :)
viZard	more conversations at #qc, sorry about that :-)
Vegas	whats the average number of users in the main chan of this server the rest of the year ?
viZard	you can google it later
Vegas	doesn't matter :)
viZard	umm, there are many other events during the year
viZard	did you hear about the InfoSec congress?
Vegas	nope
viZard	too bad
Vegas	1st time i join here
Vegas	yea i guess
viZard	http://infosec.uninet.edu
viZard	you allways have The Log!
viZard	continue....
viZard	<M4rc0> does this project have any relation with the free software law project in colombia?
viZard	not at all
viZard	any further questions?
viZard	hooray!
garoeda	clap clap clap clap clap
garoeda	clap clap clap clap clap
garoeda	clap clap clap clap clap
garoeda	clap clap clap clap clap
Vegas	lol
garoeda	for te speaker
viZard	tickets for caribbean to garoeda
garoeda	thank you
garoeda	i hope te speaker is still here
xtingray	thank you garoeda :)
garoeda	:)
* garoeda falls asleep on his keyboard
xtingray	je je je
viZard	Vegas, got to the infosec web?
xtingray	well, time to say good bye friends...
Vegas	yea
xtingray	thank you to everyone by coming :)
Vegas	bye xtingray and thanks for the lecture
garoeda	goodnight xtingray
xtingray	bye Vegas and thank you too :)
xtingray	goodnight garoeda
viZard	Vegas, there were a lot of important security people

Generated by irclog2html.pl 2.1 by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net!