@alejandro | Good night everybody. |
@alejandro | Now its time for Aaron Seigo talk about the present and future of KDE. |
@alejandro | Aaron Seigo has been contributing in KDE in the last years and now work as internal in Trolltech. |
@alejandro | Some projects like Appeal and Plasma are coordinated by him. |
@alejandro | Welcome Aaron, your turn. :-) |
@aseigo | hello everyone =) |
@aseigo | and thanks for coming out .. i know it's evening time for many people. |
@aseigo | if you have any questions / comments as we go along, please don't hesitate to interupt and ask ... i always prefer interactive sessions, especially when i'm in the audience ;) |
@aseigo | i'll start with the present state of KDE, including a brief introduction to what the project is (and hopefully keep that short as i'm sure most of you know what KDE is) |
@aseigo | most people identify KDE with the "desktop environment" we release ... |
@aseigo | these releases consist of a full set of tools, from a login manager to desktop icons and panels to a set of basic applications |
@aseigo | all of this is, of course, released as open source software. |
@aseigo | what many people don't often associate with KDE is the application development platform that we provide, as well as the larger community and integration projects that exist within and around KDE |
@aseigo | if you have ever been to http://kde-apps.org you'll have seen that there are a LARGE number of KDE applications out there, many of which are developed by people who aren't part of the "main" KDE project |
@aseigo | they use the very capable development platform that we ship as part of the desktop, which includes all sorts of facilities from network transparent file access to a full web rendering suite to password managers and network updaters |
@aseigo | we also do a lot of work with other projects such as FreeDesktop.org, OpenOffice.org and X.org ... |
@aseigo | currently within the main KDE project, we have 1200 active accounts for people who can commit code and other changes to KDE |
@aseigo | we have somewhere between 300 and 400 active software developers, and if we include active translators, artists, web developers, etc... we're in excess of 1000 participants |
@aseigo | so it's a very big project at this point. in fact, it's really a "meta-project": KDE itself is made up of many, many smaller projects that work together |
@aseigo | quite recently we released version 3.5 of the KDE desktop and application suite |
@aseigo | http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-3.5.php |
@aseigo | a visual guide to a few of the select new features was also released: http://www.kde.org/announcements/visualguide-3.5.php |
@aseigo | of course, nothing really compares to actually trying it out =) |
@aseigo | being the 6th major release in the KDE3 cycle, it's really a "maturation" release ... there weren't many new applications, but certainly a lot of bug fixes, feature additions, visual enhancements and performance improvements |
@aseigo | some of the more interesting additions included SuperKaramba, which provides attractive "desktop widgets" ... |
@aseigo | SuperKaramba has obvious been around for a while, but this was the first time it was shipped with KDE proper |
@aseigo | http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/ssuperkaramba.html |
@aseigo | Kopete, the official KDE instant messager, also saw a huge number of improvements |
@aseigo | besides being more eye-candy-rific than ever, it also added a number of nice capabilities such as basic webcam support for some of the protocols it supports |
@aseigo | support for emoticon themes and chat windows themes was also extended, including the ability to download new themes directly from kopete itself. |
@aseigo | these are all nice things, but what really makes KDE for me is how these pieces work together |
@aseigo | for instance, i use Kontact for my email and calendaring needs |
@aseigo | if i am reading an email from someone who is also online in kopete, it notes that they are online right in the email (it also notes if they are offline, but that's slightly less useful ;) |
@aseigo | some of the IRC applications for KDE also use this same "presence awareness" framework, so you can go right to the irc channel someone is in from an email ... |
@aseigo | this is all tied together by the global addressbook in KDE ... and is just one example of how the pieces of KDE work together seemlessly. you can see similar examples throughout KDE. |
@aseigo | most often people don't even notice these cooperative bits of software at work, and that's a good thing. it means things simply work together |
@aseigo | another area that has had a lot of work in KDE3 is the educational software. |
@aseigo | this section of the KDE project really took off after 3.0 and we now have some really interesting software in the kdeedu module |
@aseigo | things like KStars, which is probably the best open source astronomy app around right now .. you can even use it to remote control appropriately instrumented telescopes |
@aseigo | and the graphics are pretty sweet too =) it's one of those applications i often show in presentations just because it's so nice looking, with it's real-time tracking of the sky, interactive object finding and nice sky animations |
@aseigo | and that's just one of the education applications. we also have applications for geometry, chemistry, test taking and language skills |
@aseigo | more informaton can be seen at http://edu.kde.org/ |
@aseigo | a lot of work also went into the "work" applications in the KDE3 series, and 3.5 is no exception |
@aseigo | KHTML and KJS (JS == javascript) are our web rendering technologies |
@aseigo | these were started before Mozilla was open sourced, and are standards compliant, light weight and well integrated components that web and HTML enable a number of KDE applications |
@aseigo | as i mentioned earlier, a lot of times KDE users don't notice this sort of integration going on ... |
@aseigo | but the welcome screens in the Control Center, KMail and other applications use KHTML |
@aseigo | email messages are displayed using KHTML. this may sound dangerous, but KHTML was built with sandboxing in mind and so is quite secure (unlike similar approaches on other non-Free platforms) |
@aseigo | basically, almost anywhere you see HTML type content displayed in a KDE application, it's almost certainly KHTML |
@aseigo | but we aren't the only users of KHTML. KHTML+KJS is also known as "webcore" and is used by Apple, Nokia and others |
@aseigo | in fact, there is now an industry consortium around these technologies which is helping work together better on them |
@aseigo | http://khtml.info/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page |
@aseigo | due to how KHTML and KJS were designed, it is easy to port them to different graphics engines. and do to their lightweight nature and relatively small codebase (relative to other comparable renderers, that is), it's being put to use in a lot of different applications |
@aseigo | from handhelds at nokia, to full web browsers like konqueror and safari |
@aseigo | one of the recent fruits of this colaboration is that konqueror in KDE 3.5 passes the "acid 2" test, which is a web standards torture test (emphasis on "torture") |
@aseigo | konqueror is one of the first browsers out there to make this milestone, and the effort to make this happen was shared by our own hackers as well as the people at Apple |
@aseigo | those are some of the highlights of 3.5, but as you explore you'll find numerous improvements throughout |
@aseigo | from improved looks on the panels, to improved support for hotplug devices .. |
@aseigo | i really like the latter feature, as now whenever i pop in a DVD it simply starts up my DVD player software |
@aseigo | i happen to use codeine for that, which isn't part of the KDE desktop releases itself, but is one of those great 3rd party applications .. it's also open source, and i do recommend it if you are looking for a no-nonesense video player that generally Just Works |
@aseigo | (it uses Xine in the back end) |
@aseigo | which brings us to multimedia and KDE |
@aseigo | right now we're in a transitional phase |
@aseigo | aRts works really quite well these days, but we've pushed it to its limits. |
@aseigo | a sign of this is the number of media applications that use other frameworks ... both JuK and amaroK, which are our light and heavy-weight music players respectively, support GStreamer, for instance. and amaroK defaults to Xine |
@aseigo | and this really marks our slow departure from aRts, which has served us very well over the years. but i'll cover that in a bit when we get to the "future of KDE" bit |
@aseigo | other vital parts of the KDE desktop include the developer tools (KDevelop, Kompare, Qt Designer, KBabel, Umbrello for UML modelling and more) |
@aseigo | graphics apps such as kolourpaint, which is a simple paint application... and of course a collection of basic utilities, games, artwork, etc |
@aseigo | but i think that a lot of the really exciting application development happens in the "extragear" side of things these days |
@aseigo | http://extragear.kde.org/ |
@aseigo | these are applications that are developed independant of the KDE Desktop release cycle, but which are (usually) hosted on the KDE project's resources (bug tracking, source repositories, mailing lists, etc) |
@aseigo | applications like K3B (*the* open source CD and DVD burning application), digiKam (a REALLY nice digital photo collection manager) and amaroK are all found here |
@aseigo | i could go on at length about each of those apps, let alone the dozens of others found in extragear, or the thousands elsewhere =) we're a big community these days |
@aseigo | and that community is more than just software |
@aseigo | we ship in excess of 50 languages, with many more on the way, and support extensive localization |
@aseigo | as an international project whose software is used by people around the world, this is obviously a vital aspect of things |
@aseigo | we not only have the best tools for things like translations available on the open source desktop right now (such as KBabel), but we have comprehensive support for things like localized calendars, complex scripts (e.g. Hebrew, Indic scripts) in most of our applications ... |
@aseigo | as well as the Obvious items of localized date, numerical and currency formats |
@aseigo | then there are our very active art (http://kde-look.org and http://kde-artists.org) community, user communities (kde@kde.org mailing list, the KDE web forums and more) and regional enthusiast groups |
@aseigo | in fact, we just established a new group in India, imaginatively called "KDE India" |
@aseigo | we have similar groups in the Netherlands, France and elsewhere... when we held our annual world conference this year in Spain, we found a large number of enthusiastic users and developers who helped out *a lot* |
@aseigo | so we have this extremeley large development community (we host over 4 million lines of code within KDE now, with many many applications being developed elsewhere) and active translators, documenters, artists, etc... |
@aseigo | of course, we can always use and welcome more participants of all sorts.. be it bug triage or translation or local event coordination or software development =) |
@aseigo | this large galaxy of effort and involvement is the current pinacle of KDE ... and is also the terminus of the KDE3 series. there is no 3.6 release planned at this point (though 3.5.1 will be released in January) |
@aseigo | a large number of people have come to rely on KDE, either the whole desktop or individual applications, in their day-to-day play, work, studies and research |
@aseigo | this includes a range of institutions such as hollywood computer graphics studios |
@aseigo | music retailers in Scandanavia |
@aseigo | hospitals in Austria (i know of 5 in that country alone that run KDE as their primary desktop) |
@aseigo | medical imaging companies here in my home country of Canada |
@aseigo | universities in Europe, North America and Australasia |
@aseigo | we're also seeing large deployments in companies in places such as Europe; a recent 12,000+ desktop deployment was just completed in Germany, for instance, and that isn't out of the ordinary |
@aseigo | and yet our largest audience remains the individual home user, student, scientific researcher and small offices |
@aseigo | this is represents a very large responsibility on our part, and that is shaping very much how we are moving forward with KDE4 |
@aseigo | we both want to provide something really exciting, but also remain true to our roots and not alienate or dissapoint our current users... |
@aseigo | before i go on to speaking about KDE4 too much ... are there any questions or comments about KDE3 or the KDE project as it is right now? |
* aseigo hopes he hasn't put everyone to sleep by this point ;) |
@aseigo | alrighty.. on we go then =) |
@aseigo | KDE4 ... right now we have 3 broad goals that we are working towards for KDE4: |
@aseigo | 1) better workflow (this may sound a bit boring, but it's not.. as you'll see ;) |
@aseigo | 2) improved and updated look and feel |
@aseigo | 3) faster, leaner applications that cover the needs of today's desktop use |
@aseigo | i'll cover those in reverse order ... |
@aseigo | right now, with the latest X and fontconfig, KDE4 starts up in ~4s on a moderate powered machine.. that's from log in to fully functional desktop |
@aseigo | this is about the same as it takes XFCE currently to do the same |
@aseigo | Qt4 has brought improvements with it that result in significant (e.g. double digit %) reductions in memory footprints for applicatons |
@aseigo | and we're currently cleaning out cruft and design errors from our base technologies to make things Go Faster and Use Less =) |
@aseigo | performance is really one of the biggest problems on the open source desktop, be that Open Office, KDE, GNOME, etc... we're doing out part to help out there |
@aseigo | and that means occassionally working on things "lower in the stack" than KDE |
@aseigo | i mentioned fontconfig, for instance ... one of our developer, Lubos Lunak, has been extensively profiling things along with some people from X.org and GNOME to spot and fix problems in technologies we share |
@aseigo | this cooperative model of development has given us a lot of improvements for our users in the last few years, such as finally having unified application menus and drag and drop .. but we're entering a new era of cooperation between the projects, and KDE4 will benefit from this |
@aseigo | so .. faster and leaner is good .. but we all want something that looks and work better too =) |
@aseigo | this is where Plasma enters in... |
@aseigo | http://plasma.kde.org |
@aseigo | Plasma is a workflow-centric approach to the desktop ... which also aims to look really good =) |
@aseigo | Zack Rusin, several of the Superkaramba developers, kicker hackers, and myself are working on this |
@aseigo | in particular, Zack has been working with X and the newer graphics capabilities, such as COMPOSITE... |
@aseigo | this is the same thing that has allowed us to begin to offer things like truly translucent windows |
@aseigo | unfortunately, up until now support for these new X extensions has been slow and, to be honest, very flaky |
@aseigo | we've been working on X itself to help fix that (EXA, the "eye candy X architecture") is one step towards that, and was worked on primarily by Lars Knoll and Zack Rusin at Trolltech and contributed back to X.org |
@aseigo | but we're also working on the KDE level |
@aseigo | plasma itself is aiming to do away with the concepts of "panels" as well as "the desktop is a place to throw icons only" concepts |
@aseigo | instead, users can chain together buttons and live mini-applications either on the edges of the screen or on the desktop itself... and you can drag them between the desktop, floating (ala MacOS Dashboard) or the screen edge |
@aseigo | and the mini-applications themselves adjust to the form factor... so while the weather applet might just show a single icon for the weather when attached to the screen's edge (what we'd refer to as a "panel" or "taskbar" today), it would expand to show a full 3 day forecast when detached and placed on the desktop |
@aseigo | additionally, the desktop itself is no longer "rooted" behind the windows.. the user can call it forward and then back behind the windows |
@aseigo | the reason for this is that desktop will become much more of an interactive piece in using the computer |
@xtingray | aseigo: do not scape... no yet ;) |
@xtingray | :S |
@krocz | connections problems of Aaron, we will wait for by his reconexion |
@xtingray | ok |
@krocz | reconnection :) |
@xtingray | i hope he come back... :( |
@aseigo | (apologies for the flaky network.. apparently my ISP is having some issues =) |
@aseigo | of course, plasma isn't the only place we are innovating |
@aseigo | xtingray: what was the last msg you saw? |
@xtingray | aseigo the reason for this is that desktop will become much more of an interactive piece in using the computer |
@xtingray | * Ping reply from aseigo: 1.54 second(s) |
@xtingray | aseigo: are you there? |
@aseigo | yes.. i'm just about to repost the last few msgs |
@xtingray | ok :) |
@aseigo | so if you are working on a work project, it might show the people from your office who are online, display the application icons you need to do your work and even include a little zero-configuration "network sharing" box where you can drag items and have them instantly shared with others in your workgroup |
@aseigo | when you switch to working on your family photoalbum, the desktop's contents woudl also shift |
@aseigo | instead of being concerned with static sets of icons and applets that mostly just display information, we are moving to the concept of a true "workspace" |
@aseigo | this is in reaction to the fact that we tend to work on more than one project on the same computer, have gigabytes of data on our computers and work with the network and identity and central ideas |
@aseigo | these things were so true 10 or 15 years ago, even though that's what our current desktop and panel metaphores were designer for how we used computer 10 or more years ago! |
@aseigo | i've been working on means to allow applications (even non-KDE apps; i met with a GNOME hacker just last week in person and discussed these things with them =) to publish their internal state |
@aseigo | this will allow us to present a task-centric view of what you are doing what applications, what documents, who you are dealing with |
@aseigo | on the eye-candy side of life all of this is going to be driven using SVG |
@aseigo | SVG is one of those buzzwords that has held a lot of promise but not much application until recently |
@aseigo | we've used it for icons, and now inkscape has emerges as a really good SVG editor |
@aseigo | but beyond that not much |
@aseigo | in KDE4 we have support for rich SVG content, as well as ligthweight graphics, including animation using SVG |
@aseigo | this means that using SVG, plus plasma's javascript support, you can create new applets with very, very little code (and *no* C or C++) |
@aseigo | combined with the COMPOSITION manager that Zack is currently working on, we'll be able to provide very nice visual effects |
@aseigo | for example, when a new application event occurs, instead of a box popping up somewhere randomly on your screen or the application needing to have it's own system tray icon |
@aseigo | a small area extends out from the screen edge without stealing focus away from what you are doing and highlights the new event (stacked above other events if there were older pending events) |
@aseigo | such animations, highlight effects, etc have been really expensive to do and we were rather limited in how beautiful we could make them |
@aseigo | our aim is to have a similar or better initial impression for users as MacOS X does in this area |
@aseigo | the eye candy will remain optional, of course if you have an older graphics card, things won't look as pretty, but they'll still be functional =) |
@aseigo | for example, when a new application event occurs, instead of a box popping up somewhere randomly on your screen or the application needing to have it's own system tray icon |
@aseigo | a small area extends out from the screen edge without stealing focus away from what you are doing and highlights the new event (stacked above other events if there were older pending events) |
@aseigo | our aim is to have a similar or better initial impression for users as MacOS X does in this area |
@aseigo | the eye candy will remain optional, of course if you have an older graphics card, things won't look as pretty, but they'll still be functional =) |
@aseigo | (apologies for the flaky network apparently my ISP is having some issues =) |
@aseigo | of course, plasma isn't the only place we are innovating |
* aseigo gives people a bit to catch up =) |
@aseigo | ok... i just launched OpenOffice so people must have had enouh time ;) |
@aseigo | other areas of innovation: |
@aseigo | multimedia: instead of relying exclusively on yet another media framework as we move away from aRts (which is largely unmaintained at this point), we're providing a basic audio API for applications that will provide access for 99% of audio needs that will wrap the actual media system |
@aseigo | this will allow us to provide support for multiple backends as well as be more agile in the future |
@aseigo | tests show this should not introduce latency, etc issues for most applications |
@aseigo | for those apps that really stress the media systems, they will likely write directly to one of the media systems as they do now (e.g. gstreamer, aRts, whatever) |
@aseigo | for office applications ... we FINALLY have proper font kerning, etc support and a much more scalable text display system |
@aseigo | meaning that KOffice 2, which will use KDE4 and Qt4, will provide proper WYSIWYG printing, for instance |
@aseigo | ditto for other text and image manipulation applications |
@aseigo | this helps put us on par with what you can get on Windows or MacOS |
@aseigo | we're also revisiting our basic user interface elements and refining them to better reflect what our users have been hungering for, such as: |
@aseigo | a refined web browser interface, as well a more file-management specific interface |
@aseigo | in otherwords, a konqueror that adapts a LOT better than the current one does to what you are actually trying to do |
@aseigo | we're also experimenting with content-centric, rather than file-centric, management of your information |
@aseigo | this would move email, for instance, to being a first class citizen alongside your mp3s ... as well as help tie them together semantically |
@aseigo | so you could open the "aaron seigo" (virtual) folder on your system and see all the documents i sent and when (and even navigate to the email message they came from in case you forgot why i sent it to you) |
@aseigo | we've found that while users generally have little use for a "search tool" that sits on your desktop, they really get a lot of use of context-sensitive interfaces |
@aseigo | this means tieing together temporal information, metadata, and identity ... essentially closing the interaction loop between you and your computer |
@aseigo | right now our desktops show us stuff, and we organize it, and then it shows us that same stuff again hoping we remembered how it was all put together |
@aseigo | we have the ability these days to let the computer remember some of that organizational information for us; essentially having the computer react to our organizing |
@aseigo | and then present our information and tasks in the future in a way that displays that |
@aseigo | oh .. and we're also working on new version of all those great KDE3 applications .. just a small detail ;) |
@aseigo | it's a HUGE project and HUGE effort... we're refining a lot of what we did in KDE3, and introducing a lot of improved functionality |
@aseigo | 4 million lines of code don't morph overnight... right now we have a basically-working desktop that looks a lot like KDE 3.5 ;) |
@aseigo | we also have a lot of work happening in the base libraries, and a lot of application porting happening |
@aseigo | we don't expect a release of KDE4 until next fall (2006) |
@aseigo | it's really exciting to see the open source desktop simultaneously unit around projects like FreeDesktop.org as well as move forward to not just meet up with non-Free offerings from Microsoft and Apple ... but to start leepfrogging them... |
@aseigo | and still keep true to our Free Software ideals in the process =) |
@aseigo | that about wraps up my presentation (which i always find a bit odd to do on IRC =) ... again, questions, comments, etc... are more that welcome.. i'll be hanging out for a while so feel free to chat away at/with me |
garoeda | very nice ! |
roel | very interesting, looking forward to a lot of it, thanks aseigo |
neeko | aseigo, thanks for your presentation. kde4 looks very promising. |
@aseigo | mmm.. i should probably also briefly mention something new that occured on the usability front: |
@aseigo | not only do we have a new HIG nearly complete, we just aquired an extensive GUI automation testing framework |
@aseigo | as of last week we can now *automatically* test, for instance, for KDE HIG compliance of menus .. that includes the ordering, entries, sub menu depth, naming, etc.. all automatically |
@aseigo | drastically reducing the efforts required there (very important for an open source project) |
@aseigo | it even spits out XML/HTML reports ... we're working with FrogLogic for this.. |
@aseigo | and OpenUsability.org |
@aseigo | so we actually stand a good chance of not only adopting the new HIG, but with a minimum of efforts IMPLEMENTING it.. heh =) |
HnZeKtO | aseigo: how about Seele kicker-menu idea? |
@aseigo | HnZeKtO: i actually met with her last week as well ... we were all in portland at OSDL... |
roel | ps: i'm really liking your work on the new kicker |
@aseigo | HnZeKtO: and yes, the kmenu is dieing, long live the indexed and context sensitive application launcher |
@aseigo | HnZeKtO: personally, i hate the kmenu. we outgrew it, just as we outgrew static desktop icons, long ago |
@aseigo | HnZeKtO: interestingly, both KDE and GNOME are looking at solving this in similar ways... so it was nice to get Celeste from OpenUsability.org, myself and Alex Graveley (GNOME) together in one room and discussing these things |
@aseigo | this really is a new theme in the open desktop source space: working with others ;) |
HnZeKtO | :) |
@aseigo | much more than we used to ... heck, KDE even hosted the recent "redefining the SSL GUI in web browsers" conference in Toronto recently |
@aseigo | (and by host, i mean we did the invitations, provided food, etc) |
@aseigo | and not only did Mozilla show up, but so did Opera and Microsoft |
@aseigo | SSL feedback may actually be *standardized* in 2006/2007 |
@aseigo | as anyone who has been working in this space for any period of time can tell you, that's pretty amazing ;) |
@aseigo | xtingray just asked an interesting question in private (and i hope he doesn't mind me answering it here publicly) |
@aseigo | basically, it was: "can you write cross platform (e.g. win, mac, unix, linux) apps using KDE libraries?" |
@aseigo | and the answer is, yes with KDE4 |
@aseigo | Qt4 is open source on ALL platforms now, even Windows |
@aseigo | so with KDE4 we are actively porting our libraries and components to those platforms as well |
@aseigo | plasma, etc will still rely on X (who need a taskbar when you already have a dock on MacOS or Window's taskbar? even if ours does turn out nicer ;) |
@aseigo | but the libraries will be available to developers on ALL platforms |
@xtingray | aseigo, no problem ;) |
@aseigo | we hope this stimulates the development of open source applications on non-Free platforms, which still have the vast bulk of desktop developers |
@aseigo | leading to more applications on Free operating systems |
@aseigo | (and more developers) |
@aseigo | while also allowing people to use our advanced libraries without having to choose between that and cross-platform, or multiple forks |
HnZeKtO | aseigo: some people thinks that put free software on close OS is a mistake |
HnZeKtO | what do you think? |
@aseigo | i think that porting all of our applications and trying to support them on nonFree OSes is a mistake |
@aseigo | i think that attracting more developers is, however, a good thing |
@aseigo | we need to offer compelling reasons in addition to Freedom (hard to sell, and many people sadly just don't care), stability and security |
@aseigo | we need applications.. like MacOS with garage band |
@aseigo | and that means we need developers |
@aseigo | we also need some strategically important applications for migrators to use in their migrations |
@aseigo | but the decision TO migrate comes from applications and developer support |
@aseigo | and right now that means providing our libraries to as many developers as possible |
@aseigo | ISVs (open source and otherwise) are our focus in this move |
@xtingray | aseigo: about the "content-centric" model, how do you avoid the redundancy of information about files? what kind of structure data is used for this? |
@aseigo | it's less about structured data than it is about context, actually |
@aseigo | metadata is an important piece of the puzzle, but pretty overrated IMO |
@aseigo | predefined ontologies just don't map to individual usage patterns, which is really the bulk of the user experience |
aguilar | - |
@aseigo | so, as one simple example, allowing applications to "announce" what document they are currently working on / displaying and the laying out that usage on a timeline |
@aseigo | allows one to start to build, using fairly simple heuristics, relatedness |
@aseigo | then there is the data we usually throw away called "identity" =) ... e.g. when, where and who gave/sent/allowed you to access that information |
@aseigo | taken together, structured data becomes bits of glue, but it's timelines and contextual information that really defines things |
@aseigo | btw, being able to "announce documents" could one day be extended to allow web browsers to say "i'm composing an email in gmail" |
@aseigo | and have THAT show up in the taskbar / document task representation |
@aseigo | allowing us to make web apps a bit more like first class citizens rather than locked up inside of web browser windows |
@xtingray | nice... |
HnZeKtO | aseigo: Zack has left trolltech, isn't it? |
@aseigo | HnZeKtO: yes... but he'll be at my house for next couple of weeks hacking =) |
HnZeKtO | cool |
HnZeKtO | time to sleep |
HnZeKtO | aseigo: nice talk :) |
@xtingray | aseigo, thanks |
@aseigo | my pleasure.. thanks for having me |