@Oroz | Good evening/afternoon everyone |
@Oroz | Mathias Weyland leader of the swiss LUG is going to start the first talk of today |
@Oroz | about debian's philosophy |
@Oroz | As usual, questions will be in #qc |
@Oroz | Mat, |
@mat | Thank you, Oroz |
@mat | Hi everyone |
@mat | First of all, I have notice that the network connection at the university where I'm stuying and where I'm holding this talk from failed rather often during this week |
@mat | so if I disappear all of a sudden, it's because the network went down. In this case, don't panic, I'll try to come back as soon as possible |
@mat | at least until now everything looks okay. |
@mat | Now let me introduce myself. |
@mat | My name is Mathias Weyland and I'm using the Debian distribution for more than five years now |
@mat | For about the same amount of time, I'm watching the developing process |
@mat | I am maintainig several debian packages and I am applying as a Debian Developer (DD) |
@mat | As the leader of the Swiss Linux User Group, Linux is a central thing in my everyday life and I am referring about its ideology quite often |
@mat | Years ago, I came to the point where I had to ask myself why I was using Linux |
@mat | I came to the conclusion that it was not because of its upcoming "geekness", but rather because it gave me exactly what I was looking for |
@mat | It was optimized for powerful working and not for being especially kind to its users |
@mat | I'm telling you this because theres qualities are highly related to Debian, too |
@mat | Some time ago, I did a little survey about which distributions people were using |
@mat | In my environment, these were mainly SuSE, Red Hat, Mandrake (currently Mandriva Linux) and Debian |
@mat | If you start to compare those distributions, you realize that Debian is a bit different to the other three front-runners |
@mat | For example they are highly trimmed to be as user-friendly as possible and to support as much hardware as possible |
@mat | And one important difference is that Debian is being developed from volunteers, located all around the world |
@mat | I have a nice map about this :) |
@mat | http://www.debian.org/devel/developers.loc |
@mat | Furthermore, one of Debian's main goals is to keep its open status and the freedom which is related to this status |
@mat | Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to claim that other distributions don't care about the freedom-thing, but I will point out some points which show liberties which may not be possible using other distributions |
@mat | (I don't know enough details about the developing process of those distributions anyway) |
@mat | Debian's phylosophy is pilarred by two important documents: |
@mat | - The Social Contract |
@mat | - The Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) |
@mat | Both documents can be found at http://www.debian.org/social_contract |
@mat | I've been told that the talk is being translated into Spanish, so the Spanish translation of the document can be found at |
@mat | http://www.debian.org/social_contract.es.html |
@mat | By the way the pages at debian.org have a link to their Spanish translation at the bottom |
@mat | A very important point is that everyone who wants to become a DD has to agree to these documents |
@mat | I will first go into several points of the Debian Social Contract |
@mat | As stated in the document, this is a contract with the free software community |
@mat | I'd like to tell you two episodes I experienced not so long ago to show what I especially like about this contract |
@mat | Maybe you know the Horde Application Framework which is a PHP framework containing - among others - a webmail application called IMP |
@mat | Horde came with a module to filter emails |
@mat | Unfortunately, it was only able to generate procmail filter rules, but nut maildrop filter rules |
@mat | Because we really had to use maildrop, I took the procmail driver and turned it into a maildrop driver |
@mat | I published my work and sent i back to the project so that everyone could benefit from it |
@mat | Second story is a rather sad one in my opinion |
@mat | But within the last four years, such cases have increased dramatically :( |
@mat | A friend of mine bought a computer which could be used as standalone mp3 and CD player |
@mat | There was a small partition at the beginning of the disk with a mini Linux system on it which was booted after you pushed the InstantOn button on the computer |
@mat | We wanted to use an external graphic card, but we realized that the InstantOn system did not boot with any other graphic card than the built-in one |
@mat | (main system worked properly) |
@mat | Then, I said to my friend: "No big deal, this is Linux, all I have to do is mount the partition and adapt a config file" |
@mat | But then it tirned out that the manufacturer encrypted the file system to make it hard for customers to change any stuff |
@mat | They altered the boot manager to boot from such an encrypted partition$ |
@mat | Furthermore, they wrote some driver to access the computer's control panel and LED display |
@mat | When I asked them for the source code, they didn't gave it to me (which is not really surprizing, but anyway) |
@mat | I hope this explains why the Debian people set point 2 into the Debian Social Contract |
@mat | They are interested in collaboration with other projects and don't want to lose this possibility |
@mat | In the above example, the manufacturer of my friend's computer took something and didn't give anything back |
@mat | to the community |
@mat | imagine what would happen if everybody would act like this... there have been some discussions about this on the LKML not so long ago |
@mat | Another interesting point is no. 3 which states that the Bug Tracking System (BTS) is open to everyone |
@mat | In Debian, not only the BTS, but almost all official places where development and improvement of the distribution is being discussed, are open to public access |
@mat | That's not only read, but also write access |
@mat | This means that if _you_ find a bug somewhere, _you_ can report it to the BTS and share _your_ suggestions about how to solve the problem with the maintainers and all of Debian's user base |
@mat | Or you can assist to talks on the mailing list or in the IRC channels |
@mat | These are easy ways to help improving Debian without spending years trying to become a DD |
@mat | I'll come back to other points of the social contract, but let's have a look at the DFSG |
@mat | This is the other important document and explains how the term "free" is related to Debian |
@mat | I won't go into this since everyone interested can read it for him/herself |
@mat | But in the context of this talk, when I say "free" I'm referring to the term as defined in this document |
@mat | These guidelines are the reason why some software is not part of Debian |
@mat | like for example unrar, Sun's JDK or figlet, and why links2 is not compiled with HTTPS support |
@mat | And it is the reason why there are no binary drivers for graphic cards included, no closed source firmwares for wireless lan adapters and similar things |
@mat | From the lack of this software, you can see how important the DFSG is to the developers and that they really care about the content of these documents :) |
@mat | There is a dedicated (public) mailing list to discuss license problems which is called debian-legal |
@mat | Now, everyone reading this has to admit that suc hhigh restrictions have disadvantages. But when you start to think about it, you will see that the advantages if free open source software are guaranteed (including the often-cited four freedoms) |
@mat | And one more thing about figlet, unrar and code released under similar licenses: |
@mat | there is a so-called non-free archive (see point 5 of the social contract) |
@mat | Figlet and unrar for example are in there |
@mat | This archive is hosted on the Debian mirrors and Debian's infrastructure is used to build them |
@mat | but they are not part of Debian itself to ensure the integrity of the DFSG |
@mat | This by the way shows that Debian also tries to suport people doing non-free work (which is part of point 1) |
@mat | Ok, now let's go into something different |
@mat | I showed you some things Debian users can do to contribute |
@mat | But what if they want to package software? |
@mat | I think this is an important question since there is a huge amount of people which are packaging software other people will just install on their computers, mostly without asking questions |
@mat | And even as a producer of Debian, it is not possible to know everyone |
@mat | So if someone wahnts to build an official package, he/she has to seek for a so-called sponsor |
@mat | This sponsor has to be a DD because only DDs are able to upload packages successfully |
@mat | But before the sponsor uploads the package, he is obliged to carefully check the packager's work |
@mat | This includes technical details (like for example place of configuration files, proper compilation ect.) |
@mat | And just to dispose of once and for all any doubts and misunderstandings: |
@mat | Sponsoring in this context has nothing to do with money |
@mat | but it's a very time-intensive task for the sponsor |
@mat | If somebody really wants to become a DD, he has to apply for the new maintainer process, a DD has to propose him, his gpg key has to be signed from a DD, he has to agree to the social contract, the DFSG, he has to pass tests about Debian's policy, philosophy ect. |
@mat | So you see that this is a complicated process which takes a lot of time, mostly > 1 year |
@mat | For more information about this process: |
@mat | http://www.debian.org/devel/join/newmaint |
@mat | Before I welcome you to ask questions, I will tell some things about the release process: |
@mat | There are three full debian versions, called stable, testing and unstable |
@mat | These versions get codenames from the film "toy story". For now it is sarge, etch and sid |
@mat | new packages and new releases of packages go into unstable |
@mat | If there are no serious bugs which make the package almost unusable and the compilation succeeded on all platform, the packages passes to testing after 10 days |
@mat | A DFSG vilolation are considered as serious bugs and block the passage of a package to testing |
@mat | When the developers are going to release a new version, they try to eliminate as many bugs as possible from testing |
@mat | Then, testing is frozen for a short amout of time and then becomes the new stable version. |
@mat | the codenames stick to the version, so after the release the former testing (for the next release etch) becomes stable and keeps the codename etch |
@mat | testing gets a new codename and unstable is always called sid |
@mat | thanks |
@mat | what was the last thing I said? |
@Oroz | 195625<@mat> testing gets a new codename and unstable is always called sid |
@mat | ah ok |
@mat | after the release, no new packages are accepted into stable |
@mat | except security updates (done by a special security team) and very important bugfixes |
@mat | ok, that's it, now I'm open for questions |
@Oroz | no questions? :) |
@mat | Hm either I bored everyone or the talk was so perfect that there are no questions |
bureado | mat is unquestionable :) |
@mat | :) |
@Oroz | second option then ;) |
@Oroz | thanks a lot mat |
@mat | no problem, yw |
bureado | Thanks mat! |
* bureado claps |
Oroz_ | and thanks to E0x too that has been translating in #redes |
gonz | *clap* *clap* *clap* :) |
@mat | oh wait there _is_ one question |
@mat | <E0x> what think debian comunity about ubuntu project |
@mat | E0x: This is difficult to answer because not everyone thinks the same way, but I'll try to show you some points |
@mat | E0x: first of all, a lot of ubuntu developer are debian developers |
@mat | E0x: ubuntu often has newer software (and faster release cycles) and there is a mechanism which makes ubuntu patches available to debian maintainers |
@mat | so this is generally a good thing |
E0x | and the DCC Alliance follow too the same philosophy as Debian ? |
@mat | I don't know details abot the philosophy of the DCC alliance, but they share parts of the things I pointed out |
@mat | what I was going to say about ubuntu is that |
@mat | I see that it's easier than debian |
@mat | this is generally a good thing[tm], but this has disadvantages |
@mat | for example, I know that some of my packages have bugs |
@mat | but the ubuntu bug tracking system is void for this package. This means that either they are not using my packages (which is not true according to popcon), or they don0't know or don't want to do bugreports |
E0x | hmm |
E0x | ok |
E0x | so |
E0x | can the debian philosophy coexist with a Comercial propose ? |
E0x | purpose* |
@mat | and I get plenty of bugreports by email from ubuntu users, but I'm not responsible for the ubuntu packages and it seems to be hard to understand that |
@mat | E0x: Basically yes, a lot of people are using Debian in a commercial environement |
@mat | one of the problems is that you sue anybody like you could sue a commercial distributor if anything goes wrong |
@mat | another problem is the release date |
@mat | last time for example release of sarge had been announced for a date which was several months before the date when they really released it |
E0x | true |
@mat | it's quite hard to plan and rely on something you don't quite know when it will be released |
@mat | on the other hand the "We release when we are ready" idea ensures high quality |
@mat | and I think that a lot of people realized that the next release cannot be as messy as the last one |
@mat | E0x: Another problem is the lack of LSB support |
E0x | that is problem in almost all distro |
E0x | no stantard at all |
E0x | in someway is cool that , but in another way not |
@mat | yeah that's absolutely true. But Some distributions tried to improve the situation. Debian does too, but sarge is already out and it will take some time until the release of etch and a lot can happen in the meantime |
E0x | debian is not fully LSB right ? |
@mat | not yet, but there are projects on the way |
E0x | nice |
@mat | like this one here: http://people.debian.org/~taggart/lsb/ |
E0x | final question from me .. :D ) , do you use a plain Debian or Some flavour of Debian like Knoppix , Ubuntu ...etc |
E0x | and sorry for my weird english ... is not my native language |
@mat | np, I use plain Debian because if I would make packages on a system which has (even minor) differences this would result in a big mess |
@mat | But I use some backports, for example for openoffice |
E0x | oh i have another and really last question |
E0x | :D |
@mat | ok? |
E0x | the Social Contract is update for ajust to the new time ? |
E0x | ( you understand me ? ) |
@mat | if you mean that the contract is beign regularely updated, yes, that's the case |
E0x | thx |
@mat | on http://www.debian.org/social_contract at the top you have links to elder versions |
@mat | > Version 1.1 ratified on April 26, 2004. Supersedes Version 1.0 ratified on July 5, 1997. |
@mat | E0x: btw, if Spanish-speaking people have questions after the translations is done, they can ask me on freenode (I'm reagent) in #linux.ch or just in #debian |
@mat | and thanks for the translation |
@mat | If there are no further last questions, I'm going to leave to find something to eat |
oroz | bon appetit :) |
E0x | :D |
@mat | merci |
@mat | cya |