| jose_n | ok, i guess we're ready to begin |
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| jose_n | we're pretty lucky to have the next speaker |
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| jose_n | andrew hendrick is that guy you all should know from the linux kernel |
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| jose_n | he wrote almost all, if not all, of the ata/ide code in the linux kernel |
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| jose_n | today he's going to be presenting a talk entitled, "Linux, Inc a licensing body for Commerial applications". |
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| jose_n | andrew has a lot of experience in this arena, so stick around, this should be quite interesting. |
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| jose_n | andre, it's all yours :) |
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| andre | I am much nicer in person than in email or mailing lists, otherwise I would not have received the invitation |
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| jose_n | oops, i keep mispelling it :) andre, not andreew |
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| andre | One of the concerns I see in my area of expertise, is the wide usage of Linux and this is good |
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| andre | The concern is my observation of many companys abusing the right to use Linux, and there is not real practical means of regaining control of the source for the community |
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| andre | http://www.byteandswitch.com/document.asp?doc_id=45101 |
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| andre | This is a classic article on the Storage Industry becoming more a taker than contributor. |
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| andre | Originally there was an organization called Linux International, by John Mad Dog Hall, which had some of the ideas I am going to express in a possible charter. |
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| andre | As an exiting maintainer in Linux for over five years, I have seen where general orgainizations who have attempted to promote Linux failed to consider the commerial regulation and applications. |
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| andre | I as many other developers like Rik Riel, do not like the reports from users who use commerial binaries, yet I must confess I offer some for sale, too. |
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| andre | One way to address the concerns of developers is to have something similar to FSF's code review board. |
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| andre | Yes there exists such an organization. |
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| andre | Linux has no formal organization to perform such tasks, and the actual developers can not afford to become tainted by IP or Patents which could become part of the kernel base like the SCO accident. |
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| andre | Now I have a fes ideas how to address the problem, but it will take a wide spread movement to change the community's opinion, and alone I can not do it. |
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| andre | I was basically alone developing ./drivers/ide/* and burned out and became very rude to people. |
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| andre | The best of my knowledge, it is an attempt to certify clean code by companies for a fee, $25,000 USD |
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| andre | Since everyone has passed the review, one has to question the process. |
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| andre | Additionally there appear to be no rules about publishing, goups who fail to be certified. |
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| andre | Nor a process to allow them to clean up their mess and ask again to be certified. |
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| andre | Sadly some people have called it a "Get out of GPL Jail Card". |
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| andre | I personally have not been through the process, nor do I have plans in the future. |
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| andre | riel: does that answer it clearly? |
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| andre | <riel> question, what does the FSF's code review board do and what problem does it try to solve ? |
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| andre | Much if what I would like to hear from the audience is suggestions how to protect the community, yet allow and promote Commerial usages of Linux. |
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| andre | If people would like to ask questions, please do. |
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| andre | One of the means for to insure compatable commerial applications at the "kernel" level is to clone "Alex Viro" and send him out to code review. |
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| andre | There was a comment to me that 90% of the commerial binaries out there are poor. |
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| andre | The other 10% is what the community appear to be interested in ... |
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| andre | I have to question why just the 10% of the pot? |
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| andre | Because that is the simple and easy to merge? Why not pursue the other 90%, there is somebody who is using it and they deserve their right to choose also. |
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| andre | Recall the issues of nVidia, theyu have really good cards, but their driver in the beginning really lacked. |
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| andre | The developers were offended, yet nobody was willing, and now we know why they could not help. |
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| andre | Any opensource developer touching nVidia source would be tainted in ways not imagined |
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| andre | so how to protect the developer, and promote cleaner commerial usages? |
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| andre | Since nothing is free, even Linux is not free ... there are rules |
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| andre | People like myself and other old hats may be in the position to assist the current young developers. |
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| andre | and some of the old ones too |
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| andre | I have signed many NDA's (enough to heat my house for several winters), yet I still can produce clean opensource. |
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| andre | This is proof in one case it is possible to have a mixed body in an organization designed to reveiw, certify, and correct issues with binary only vendors. |
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| andre | My push is to correct compatiblity problems, and also have a legal means to correct abuses of the communities property, the source code. |
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| andre | Currently I have several cases prepared, but no means to pursue companies who abuse their priviledge to use Linux. |
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| andre | If such an organization existed to day, a resolution to my problems and others which people do not know about could be solved |
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| andre | I say people do not know about because I have seen first hand under heavy NDA's which last for 5 years, these abuses |
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| andre | Patents are good, but are dangerous too |
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| andre | There is a new licnes called Open Software License or OSL. It can be found on opensource.org |
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| andre | It has provisions around the usage of patents and would protect the community to allow usage. |
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| andre | FSF only attacks at the usage of their tools in issues like Broadcom/Linksys |
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| andre | Specifically, they can revoke the usage of "gcc", "make" and others compile tools for not distributing the source for them. |
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| andre | The walk around is for thise companies to distribute the source to all of FSF's projects used. |
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| andre | So once satisfied, the kernel is unprotected again. |
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| andre | Now to complete MJesus's question, how does GPL protect against litigation by Patents? |
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| andre | It can not, because it fails the test of Black's Law, and has no language or paragraph in their license. |
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| andre | Currently as in the IBM case against SCO, patents can harm Linux and the OSC (open source community) because Patent Law is KING |
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| andre | and Copyright law is Jack/Joker |
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| andre | Had OSL been in place, IBM would not have been needed to save Linux |
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| andre | The offenders who added the code would be subject to liablity and the associated costs. |
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| andre | Also the patent clause in OSL would (to the best of my understanding) allow free usage of the ideas in the patetn |
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| andre | Now how would a "Linux, Inc" operate? |
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| andre | Linux Inc would be charged with the duties of license and review of commerail applications and the deployment of Linux. |
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| andre | Just like we all see the "Windows" logo on systems, certified under WHQL (windows hardware qualifcation lab) and the driver signing program of windows to certify compatiblity, Linux Inc would have to follow that path. |
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| andre | It is a path I have not completely thought out, and will take the help of many to make it happen. |
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| andre | The issues it could solve is what people forget as freedom, and that is choice. |
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| andre | Now that means the freedom to use both open and closed source solutions. |
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| andre | In business, enduser like status, the SysAdmins want somebody to call if their are problems, and they want it now. |
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| andre | So they would rather have a commerial closed source solution, if they are not knowledgable enough to help themselves, with a support infrastructure. |
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| andre | This very fact, means there will always be binary only solutions. |
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| andre | If we are stuck with the issue, then we need to make the best of all worlds. |
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| andre | Something like Linux, Inc would remove the headaches of the developers the "tainting process helps" while not killing the oportunities to promote the commerial usages of Linux |
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| andre | In some what of closing, I believe two things would have to shift to promote and protect Linux in commerial applications and stop the abuse. |
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| andre | First is something like a "Linux Inc" and two another license with means to protect the developers better. |
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| andre | okay, yes the body could also be charge with documentation as means to provide guidelines |
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| riel | andre: you've certainly made me think |
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| riel | this is an important problem to solve |
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| andre | I think it may have more impact given the latests SCO noise |
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| MJesus | with high level in order to curriculum of developpers, and to create a cultural view as "free soft = scientific soft; commercial soft = unknown (not scientific) soft |
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| andre | Given SCO is under Canopy Group, which is where Caldera lives/lived, under an OSL environment, SCO, Canopy Group, Caldera would have been deemed a legal authority in the release of ibcs, and their patents would be of no use in fighting Linux |
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| andre | MJesus: not true, but most "Commerial Applications are Appliances". |
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| andre | ie some place to store your data or information |
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| andre | as a former academic, I rarely trusted commerial applications for my research |
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| MJesus | hummm the investigation aand development on software.. what kind is ? free or commercial ? |
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| andre | there are places where commerial products are granted provisions for usage in academia |
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| andre | One thing academics forget, University is a Business! |
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| riel | if there are any questions, you can ask them now on #qc |
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| riel | well andre, you've certainly given us something to think about |
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| riel | this is a very hard problem to solve |
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| riel | thank you for giving this presentation |
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| riel | clap clap clap clap clap clap |
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| riel | clap clap clap clap clap clap |
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| oins | clap clap clap clap clap clap |
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| MJesus | clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap |
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| l4uch4rpc | clap clap |
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